The Modernist Society Eddy Rhead provides perspective about changing people's perceptions of Modernist architecture and design by producing accessible events and products which celebrate the bold, brutal, and beautiful.
Creativity Without Frontiers available at all relevant book retailers
Stay in touch with Unknown Origins
Music by Iain Mutch
The Modernist Society Eddy Rhead provides perspective about changing people's perceptions of Modernist architecture and design by producing accessible events and products which celebrate the bold, brutal, and beautiful.
Creativity Without Frontiers available at all relevant book retailers
Stay in touch with Unknown Origins
Music by Iain Mutch
I'm Roy Sharples and welcome to the unknown origins podcast. Why are you listening to this podcast? Are you an industry expert? Looking for insights? are you growing your career? Or are you at your friend helping to start your own pylon, I created the unknown origins podcast to have the most inspiring conversations with creative industry personalities and experts about entrepreneurship, pop culture, art, music, film and fashion. modernist society is a creative project and community of interest company that seeks to change people's perceptions of modernist architecture and design by producing accessible events and products, which celebrate the bold, brutal and beautiful. It has five chapters repeated in Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Liverpool and Birmingham, dedicated to celebrating and engaging the 20th century architecture and design to publishing events, exhibitions and creative collaborations. The publishing arm the modernist is a small press, publishers limited quarterly editions about 20th century architecture and design, educate and entertain, whilst being beautiful and engaging. I'm delighted to be joined by Edie Reed, who is one of the founding members and co editor in chief of the modernist magazine to discuss the modernist, and its creative pursuits. Welcome, Eddie.
Eddy Rhead:Very hopefully, I've looked at some of the other participants and I've been very good company by the looks of it. Very good, that you've asked me
Roy Sharples:my definition, what does modernism mean to you.
Eddy Rhead:And then if you saw our motto, which we took our motto towards a braver, more noble age, and we took that from the mat, the nicey, 45, Manchester plan, which was a plan put together by the City Council for post war reconstruction. And the phrase towards a braver, more noble age kind of sums up, you know, there have been failings, we're pragmatic, and we're realistic, and hopefully objective about the rapid failings. But with modernism, the overriding sense of it all was that it was to improve people's lives. Yeah, be through architecture be through art before the welfare state. And we love that optimism that modernism has, you know, looking forward to this, there's no get again, go back to Brexit and all this bullshit about sovereignty and all that we know, we don't believe in that we want to reach out to our European cousins, we don't want to hark back to an age that didn't exist, you know, we want to look we want to look forward with with an up with a, with an optimism. And, you know, in our own tidy little way of we proving somebody lives, you know, when we send a tea towel with a, an office block with a towel block on it, we've improved their lives. Hopefully, somebody came in for a job interview the other day, and they were telling us about how they picked up the magazine, and she didn't say it as much. And because I stopped her because she said, You know, it can change the way she looked at things. And, you know, that's so amazing style little magazine change one person's way of looking at certain things, you know, and that, that's great. And I just think in, you know, with everything that's gone on in last five or six years in, you know, the US and the UK, and, you know, we say that the paucity of ambition, you know, there's no ambition anymore, you know, we're not striving to go to the moon anymore, you know, we're harking back, we're looking backwards. And that, as I said, modernism has has its failings, but the root of it all was, you know, optimism, and improving people's lives. And that's why we do what we do. You know, we're optimistic and, you know, we want it in our own tiny little way, in our own little corner of the world to improve people's lives, what inspired and got you into the modernist in the first place, and then becoming co editor of the modernist magazine, whilst infusing your perspective on your creative process, the long held desire in all my adult life, never to get a proper job. I've never been great at working for the man so to speak, I've been sacked for virtually every job I've ever had. So, you think I'm joking, but I'm not. But it's kind of I don't I you know, I never signed up for this. I never saw there was no, there was never any plan and So, we need to go back 10 years really, I mean, I, I've always kind of liked articulating myself in various ways, you know, through various various means. And most of the time I've got a, I'd like to think I've got enough self awareness to know that I'm pretty mediocre at lots of things. And I don't mind being mediocre at lots of things. I'm very comfortable. As I said, I've never been great at holding a job down. I've never been particularly good at sports. You know, I'm a pretty mediocre lots of things. We have to go back to about 1012 years ago, and I was a full time househusband, my wife was the main breadwinner. As I said, I'm pretty much I was a deadbeat really. And I was I was always I'd got interested in modernist architecture. Because I, you know, I like absorbing things I like my local environment. I like the environment that you know that especially the urban environment, and it all came about I was living in Salford, which for those of you don't know, is like the, the city it's like, New Jersey is to New York, if you like it's a city right next to Manchester. That's where my family are from. And this was the mid 90s. And there was a beautiful old cinema building, which laid empty for 20 odd years, as you know, a 1930s Cinema which which Britain had lots of us probably states as well, you know, every small town would have at least one cinnabar most big cities had 10 2030 big cinemas and this and I just thought it was a big shame. You know, part of, you know, as I've grown older, a lot more sensible. My biggest sort of gripe is wasted opportunities. I hate to see wasted opportunities, missed opportunities. And I don't mean that I particularly like you know, right wing, Gordon Gekko kind of ways just as I wander the streets, especially bread and I see you know, buildings that are just lying rotting and it's bad you know, it's bad on on every you know, virtually every single level from a sustainability level from a environmental level from a society level. I digress and anyway I got involved in a campaign to save the cinema and and it wasn't particularly you know, interested in architecture per se or I was more interested in you know, the fact that this building could have another life and yeah, but politics did come into it I felt you know, there was there was a evil property developers were circling away to knock this building down and you know, there was a lack of good social facilities in a particular area Salford soft quite deprived. And I just second it just agitate me so the more I was guided to this campaign to try and save this building, the more interested I got in 1930 cinemark buildings and I you know, I started to get a lot more interested in so you know, just the very nature of the soul person I am I started you know, research in the you know, photographing them and if ever I would visit a city i'd i'd go and find all these lovely little abandoned cinemas in suburbs, which you know, that at the time there were hundreds but also at the time, a lot of them would be demolished. So you know, always bond for the you know, sticking up for the little guy you know, I've had to have I kind of felt sorry for the cinema, some of them are quite grand, some of them are quite anyway, long story short, so if you know anything about cinema, you know, you know, a lot of them were built with art deco flourishes and some of them were built in the modern style. And from there, you know, I got an interest in what we call it to war architecture. And then from there, I got interested in modernist architecture, you know, I, I left school when I was 16. I have no formal educational background, as I said, I was a bit of a deadbeat. So anyway, in my late 20s, I went back to university to try get my degree. And I kind of formalized it a bit and, you know, got a bit more academically interested in architecture and you know, I'm a very proud Mancunian, for those of you don't know about Qt and somebody comes from Manchester, you know, we have a very strong civic pride in Manchester. We're very proud of our city and we've got a very rich history. So I was very interested in that as well and it all kind of fed into together before and before I knew it, you know, I was a self confessed expert on modernist architecture in Manchester. And so I, you know, I, people would come to me for, you know, the audit radio interview stuff like that with, if they were demolished in a building, they'd say, Oh, you know, they flip the Rolodex, so to speak and say, right, read to read some out to talk about, you know, modernist architecture, and you know, is much history as a village and people get to know you, but have you dug around long enough, everybody, get a little bit of reputation for yourself, at least for yourself. And then, so 12 years ago, a couple of friends said, Oh, have you seen this Facebook group, a couple of people have cell for the Manchester Wagner society. Anyway, right? That sounds right up my street. And it was started by two friends called jack Hale and Maureen Ward, they've worked together and they came from a an artist background. And they were fully aware again, many of you might listen to this might not know the history a bunch of days. You know, it's the first Victorian industrial city, it was the birth of the Industrial Revolution. You know, cotton industry, the railway industry, you know, it's a pioneer in city, but it was kind of more known for its Victorian architecture,.and that's not what our cities about, especially in the UK, a lot. But you know, the vast majority of our cities in the UK 20% 20th century.I read a figure somewhere that 80% of us live in a 20th century house, not much. You know, most people don't live in modern, modernist to the capital, and houses. But our cities are, you know, predominantly 20th century. And we, you know, we live in the Great Great Britain, we suffered, our Senate suffered from from bobbin, and destruction. So there was some a lot of house post war, reconstruction. Architecture, like anything goes in fashion stages. And I use the analogy of architecture, you know, be like a child, and when they're young, and they're a little baby, and they're beautifully pristine, everybody loves them. And then they turn into teenagers, and they become a noxious, and nobody wants to be in the house and they start smelling a beer and nobody wants to look after. But then they mature and they breed, they grow up into fine, upstanding adults. And that's when people appreciate them again. So when we're talking about architecture from the 1960s, I say when he when he reached the 90s, in the naughties, they were, in their teenage years, they were in their difficult teenage years, they had been neglected, they were, you know, overlooked, take for granted in many respects. And they hadn't yet matured enough for people to appreciate them from a historical point of view, they were still fresh in the memory. And also, there's quite a, there was quite a lot of stigma, around 1960s architecture, mainly based on people's preconceptions about social housing, and the inverted commas, failure of social housing. So, you know, the vast majority of the British public see 1960s architecture is for one of a better word concrete monstrosities. And I obviously didn't think this I was, I was a big fan at the style. And the more I found out about it, you know, the more I found out about the ethos and the codes of modernism, and why why certain buildings were built. And you know, a lot of now a lot of it was built in a very strong spirit of optimism about reap reap reconstruction after the Second World War tied in with the welfare state, the National Health Service, the growth of the education sector. So it when you start tying that all in together, they start becoming builders, they start becoming part of a movement, that the modern movement Yeah, anyway. Anyway, this is a very long way. So let's go back to what saying about jack and war and they came from an arts background. And they kind of needed somebody who had a little bit you had the chops when it came to architectural history. And I like the cut of their jib. You know, I liked where they were coming from. They came from a very positive place. They like to celebrate this. It wasn't about conservation, and heritage with a capital haitch. It was more of a case of you know, let's celebrate this. And when you celebrate something, it potentially helped To change people's perceptions, where if you say something has worth, then you would hope that other people see that work. Even if you're the only person on the planet who thinks this thing has worth, then it could potentially bring other people along with you. So from a particular, you know, from a philosophical point of view, there was that intention. And so they, we had to sort of translate that into, you know, a real thing. And we kind of made a rod for our own back very early on by calling it a society. Because a society suggests that it's a group of people, members, if you like, but it wasn't, it was B, Jakob boreen, who were at the time considered cranks, who just wait to do stupid things, daft things, fun things, based around our interest in modernist design and architecture. So we, you know, we lived in isolation, and we didn't have, we didn't have any aspirations to do anything. But we thought there must be other people out there who were interested in this sort of thing. So the very first thing we did was organize. For one of a better word, a garden party we have in Manchester, we have a university campus very close to the city center. It's a postwar campus building with great idealism, a great congregation of great modernist buildings. And as lots of these campuses do, dude, they have, you know, green areas. So we said, we put it out, I think we could have put out Facebook or something like that saying, Are you interested in modernist architecture? Please meet us on Saturday afternoon at 3pm, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, about 20 people turned up. And that was nice. So we thought, oh, there are there are 20 other cranks out there who were interested in this sort of thing. And one thing led to another we organised another couple of events and more people came and, and, you know, it's it became a bit of a gang, I don't like to use the word clique, because we've always we've always tried to be very inclusive. The events we do, we hope we do the magazine, it's not academic, it's not high, if you like, interview, it's, it's a mixer, it's not it's populist, but not too popular. So it's not we don't try not to dumb things down. Anyway. So after about a year, was we realized that we were surrounded by quite a few people who were passionate about this subject, who could string a sentence together? Who articular you know, they came from a really interesting mix of backgrounds, academia, arts, architectural historians. And we realized that, you know, that perhaps we, you know, we need to pull these interests together, because these interests would be lost in the ether, they weren't be formalized, and they weren't being literally put down on paper, as some of these interests, these people that we know, are quite niche, you know, the, and we have a say, with the modern this, nothing is too nerdy. So, you know, somebody is really into, for example, bins or trash cans as you call them in America. Yeah, write an article about trash cans. That's exactly what we want to hear about. And we have in the, in the magazine, I wrote an article for the very first issue of the magazine about tribe. And for those of you who don't know, tribe is the stomach linings of a cow. And in the 1950s 60s, after the post war rationing, it was considered a little bit of a delicacy and a whole range of tried restaurants for sell but they were all very, very high class and they were all very nicely furnished. So I wrote an article about tripe and we like to think there is no magazine on the planet that would write an article about tribes for better or worse and that's kind of where we, we came to. So jack said to me after about a year of running the the modern society as a group said, I want to start a magazine and you've got to remember this was about 10 years ago when the banner headlines were print is dead, you know, people, you know, everything was going over to the internet magazines were you know, even some well established magazines were coming to an end because you know, everything was going digital. And I said, Are you insane? You want to start a magazine we haven't got a penny to our name and you want to start a magazine. Anyway, I you know, this this was the everything we do is folly. You know, everything we do is Fully and it's pretty, it's good folly and it's better. To quote a cliche to regret something, you have to learn something new. So I said, Okay, then come on, I start a magazine because as I said, we could we could cobble together 1012 people we knew who could write a nice article, we setting the agenda very early on, you know, we we've never paid our contributors, because we haven't because we're a nonprofit. We've always relied on the goodwill of designers. And we were quite lucky as we knew somebody in our sphere, had just graduated from college with the graphic design does it and that degree and they were looking for work. I was, you know, it was serendipitous. And so we got Dez to design it for free. Everybody contribute for free. And we did a very early version of crowdfunding. Yeah, we pre we pre sold the first issue. We you know, we put it out amongst our socials saying, we're thinking of starting a magazine, please sign up for this magazine. Anyway, 200 300 people signed up for it. And it was just like, Whoa, now. Now we've got to make this thing. So they signed up for a year they sign up for a year and again, we made our rod Ferraro back because when people sign up for subscription, they expect the magazine to drop through the letterbox four times a year. Where there's, I have the the analogy is I use it's the Robert Duvall versus James Dean syndrome when it comes to publishing. So, Robert Duvall, James Dean, their careers pretty much died roughly around the same time. Robert Duvall obviously was in To Kill a Mockingbird went on to star in some amazing movies had a long career, doing good, solid, robust roles. Still going as far as I know, I think still turns open. But you know, never, you know, you'd never see him in the tabloids. And then you've got James D. Live fast die young make three amazing fields. So the publishing world I think we are Robert Duvall, and I'm very happy to be Robert Duvall. But there are also magazines out there. The first issue comes out and they've clearly spent a lot of money on it, it looks absolutely beautiful. It looks great. The second issue comes out, it doesn't look so great. Because there's the realities of running a magazine, some live hit omit scenes, and then you might see a third very unlikely you're gonna see it for now, I don't have any problem with that. We need magazines like that we need magazines to shine beautifully and bright and then burn out very quickly. But we, as a magazine have always been quite Robert De Val ish, you know, under the radar, always caught up off the Cordingley. We've never taken advertising love to take some advertising if it probably was today. But I don't think many mainstream advertisers would be interested in a magazine about bins and tried so. So if you say we've always been very happy to put it not on ambitious but realistic about you know, what we can do with with with very limited resources. So as I say, go back, we've always relied on, you know, the generosity of designers and contributors. And I think people have responded to that will cost I just wanted to because we're up to the 37th issue. And I think what people like about the magazine is that it's kind of written by its readers, you know, that there are the demographic we're aiming at all the people who buy the magazine are stupid things to say, but, you know, somebody comes to us with an interesting idea. And it fits in with the theme, then we'll say yeah, and they said, Well, I'm not really a writer, I said, that's fine. We don't care. You know, just write it in your own voice. And I said, we try and mix it up a bit with academia because with a little bit of academic rigor, because that gets you into places, you know, to be completely pragmatic guy, people take you a bit more seriously if there's a bit of academic rigor to it. And sometimes that'll unlock funded and add collaborations with, you know, rich institutions like universities and stuff like that, and NSA but at the heart of everything we've done, has been collaboration. You know, if there's one thing that we did, which is the botanist is based on its collaboration, we we've, in the last couple of years, we've been we've introduced guest editors, because Maureen for various reasons she she left us alone for about two or three years and went our own way. So it's left to me and jack, who were two white heterosexual northern men with our own, you know, very interested, but sometimes the magazine was becoming a bit of a boys club. We noticed that one issue every single contribute was a man. And you know, we can't help what we are we we are white heterosexual men and we, we have limited experiences. And we wanted to open it up to other people, mainly because the magazine was and was starting to be written by the same set of contributions, which was fine. But, you know, there are lots of people out there with interesting things to say interesting subjects. And so we introduce some guest editors. You know, who would hopefully bring something new to the party, their own, you know, group of people who are interested things. And in the last 10 years, since the magazine has been going, I think our our little niche has expanded. You know, you can't move on Instagram, and Facebook now for brutalist appreciation societies. Or bickering amongst themselves is this really brutalism, you say, but we, you know, we don't get into any of that we don't, we don't get into any of that. It's with we, we, I, you know, you you, you might be able to answer this better than Nazis know, you've seen the magazine and us clearly like it. And I'm always interested to know, you know, why people like, it's because we make it for ourselves, you know, we and I think, I think at the heart of any creative processes, and again, this is a massive cliche, you have to make something for yourself, you know, and if anybody comes along with it, that's just gravy. That's just a bonus. As things develop, you know, the, as I said, there, there are people relying on you, you know, you have to deliver for magazines a year, but it's never, you know, it's never, it's never tedious. It's never bide, oh, we've got to get into the magazine. It's like, right, cool. Let's get and let's get it out. Let's get it out, which keeps it hopefully, hopefully, say keeps it fresh. You you as a reader, a subscriber might be able to tell us tell me otherwise. But you know, we've lost subscribers along the way. Because it's, you know, maybe it's too nice or not nice, you know, for that graphic design is too challenging for some people, for various reasons. But on the whole, it's been a steady, you know, it's been a steady growth. It's not been, and, you know, say with me and jack and Men of a Certain Age, we're not interested in, you know, fast results, quick results. We're in it. We're in it for the long run, we'd rather, as I say be a Robert Duvall than the James Dean. So yeah. So there we are. And there we are, we're up to where we're at 10 years later, 37. Issues still going.
Roy Sharples:I like how you've democratized the publishing process, by making it available to and making it possible for all people to understand and contribute to, from both the writing and editorial perspective, along with your crowdsourcing model, where you've allowed people to help self finance it from your community of interest to achieve a cumulative result. And also your your praxis theory of independence, that ethos of just doing something because you believe in it. And you have an urge just to simply do it. invent the reasons why you did that later. But simply, you learn why you do something by actually doing it. And that comes through prominently within your approach to creativity, and your creative process by how you initiate and iteratively evolve ideas into the final form, and bring them to life through a progression of thoughts and actions. Paying homage to your prior points about being a catalyst, and cultural storyteller for modernist architecture, by connecting the dots from the past, to the present, by educating and entertaining your audience in a sincere, beautiful and engaging way. It triggered other thoughts as I was listening to you, liqueur boosey pioneered modern architecture by transforming industrial housing into tenement buildings that mirrored streets at ground level and maximize space with back to back housing. I first became aware of this, and Stanley Kubrick's A Clockwork Orange movie that created a futuristic world. Similarly with Park Hill, the public housing estates in Sheffield sort of South Yorkshire in England, which was inspired by liquor Boosie streets in the sky. Similarly, in Manchester where you have home crescents, and also in Leeds where there was a quarry Hill estate and there's many other similar social housing mistakes across the north of England, but brutalist followed that modernist cry to promote positive alternatives for contemporary and modern urban housing developments, where form follows function, and rejecting the early 20th century eclectic revivalist movements such as Gothic as an example of Victorian architecture, instead of let its buildings resemble what the really are. The point earlier that was so poignantly articulated around how you view architecture similarly to the evolution of children. a specific example, as it relates to brutalism, as high rise, buildings became associated with crime, urban decay and social deprivation. And many of those buildings were demolished, though thankfully, some did survive this architectural Holocaust, such as the Barbican estate in London, which is one of the finest manifestations of brutalist a utopian style and idealism for inner city living.
Eddy Rhead:if there is a if there is a model. And we've we based ourselves on, on three institutions for one of our words, so some that you may know, and some that you might not know. The first one is Apple, not Apple, Corporation, Apple, Apple Records, The Beatles label. And basically, they, they, they obviously made a shitload of money, and then they surrounded themselves by their mates and put out records by their mates, essentially. And sometimes the quality control wasn't great, but it was a, you know, it's a community. And and it was done for all the right reasons, you know, we're not going to lose the same amount of money that they did. But you know, it was a creative output, it was done with creativity of mind, the second organization, and it's very difficult to get away from it in bunches, Factory Records. The way Factory Records was done. You know, everything was very beautiful, beautifully done with a certain reverence, but at the same time, a certain integrity. Yes, well, you know, everything was done with integrity, but in a very Mancunian way. And, again, I could probably go on along a lot about this book. A few years ago, I was watching a an old recording of Tony Wilson, for those of you don't know, run Factory Records. And he was talking about practice. And it piqued my interest. And so I looked a little bit more into it. And Tony Wilson was a big fan of practices. And the more I looked into it, and I, this was totally on knowing this thought, that's exactly what we do. You know, so without naturalizing, in when in practice, practice was Aristotle. It was the the three parts of man or human beings, there's thinking making and doing. And it is what defines us as human beings. But it was also say it also, Wilson expanded it, he said, you do something and you put it out in the world. And then you reflect back on it, what you know, you serve it up to the people, and it's what they how they respond to it is why you do it, you, you do something without knowing why you're doing it, just because you can just because you can. So there was that? So there's the factory model and practice. But also, people of a certain age in Britain might remember a program called the ryzen for original pairing. Yeah. And this was about a guy who was disillusioned with the mainstream life he so he faked his own suicide. Anyway, he came back from his own suicide under a pseudonym and accumulated unwittingly a huge amount of wealth, and he didn't want this wealth. So he set up what he called the garage shop, where he set up a shop, selling things nobody thought nobody wants to buy in the hope of getting rid of all his fortune. Anyway, ironically, this shop was a huge success. People did want to buy all this stuff. And it was a huge dilemma. So go back to what we were saying, just the overriding thing is, when we first started, we thought to ourselves, who would want to buy a magazine with an article about tribes and public toilets, and the elephant enclosure at London Zoo. Anyway, turns out people did. So that we, you know, we got into our merchandise, we thought over the very first time, we thought, who would want to buy a batch with the word brutalist written on it? Anyway, so that 1000s of people do you want to buy a badge with brutalist written on it. And that's kind of the ethos we have behind our products. And, you know, to a certain extent, see, what we do is like, we try and find a daft idea, in the hope that nobody's going to respond to it, but it's consistently wrong, cuz people do respond to it. And as you so kindly said, is, I think, because we do that irreverent sort of humor, but at the same time, with an integrity as well, as you know, with the Factory Records, things, we try and make things as nice as possible within it, you know, with our very limited resources, you know, the magazines is produced very, very cheaply. But I think we get a lot of bang for our buck, you know, and I think people appreciate that. We try very, very hard to make the magazine as nice as we can afford it and, and keep it accessible as well. It just in terms of cost, you know, we could charge a couple of quid more, I'm sure people will pay for it. But I personally am very conscious of making it at a price that makes it accessible for people because I do want people to pick it up in my local pub, which I you know, I leave a copy in the poor burn. And I know people pick it up, they can watch this. And they said, you know, some people might think was this nonsense, but I know for a fact, people have picked it up in the pub, would never think of buying it and read it and read it from cover to cover because it's just, I've never I've never read an article about that. I've never read, you know, or I did not I didn't know that about that. And that's kind of what you know, we're that's what we're here for. To go back to our original if we do have an ethos is to is to open people's eyes to, you know, Shine a light in the in the dark corners of modernism.
Roy Sharples:Your appointment of Johnny Marr, as a key patron is a masterstroke because I believe so many of the themes, principles and values that you embellish, he personifies that.
Eddy Rhead:We can't take any, you know, kudos for that is that there's the story. Go back to what you were, I think what you said. I'm glad you've job Dave drops, Johnny Marr because I didn't really like today. You know, we asked him once, what what I liked about is he he's very lyrical. And he's, you know, he's very cool. And, you know, and he said, because you're pure, you know, yeah, that's that's all that's all he said. So, the, he's a perfect example is, you know, he was never It was never on our radar. I'm not massive Spanner. You know, he obviously is it is he's a living legend Rob Manchester. And, you know, Eddie, you know, bumped into him in a couple of times that he's always been very nice. But you know, we Anyway, what the, we've got Ali, who sort of its own official fan club member to thank because she runs she's, she lives in Australia. And she for some reason, I don't know how she got hold of the magazine. And Johnny bar fans are obsessive, you know, they've they worship the ground, he works walks on, and she read a copy of the magazine. And she she thought God would like this because you know, they live live breathe and eat god they know is anyway so she sent him a copy of the magazine and apparently he read it from cover to cover there was and he said that this magazine is made for me every single article is is me. So he got in touch and he said I love what you do it said next time I'm in town I'll call in anyway when Johnny boss send you an email saying next time you're in town are calling you think Yeah, yeah, of course. Anyway, jack turns up at the office one day Johnny Barlow stood outside the office in the street. Unfortunately, I wasn't there so Jacobite even gave a COVID said he sat there for two hours. And and you know, he's, he was one of our badges on the Johnny Carson show. And again, it goes back to he did a video called citizens What a terrible job are fun and and then the video was shot in and around Manchester. A lot of the locations were not nice buildings. So anybody said somebody said to me, so you've seen this, anyway, turns out that they'd used one of our books and our website to source locations for high town velocity. That was the one. Yeah. So he kind of, we were on, we were on his radar there. And then when he got the magazine, and you know, he you know and say, Johnny's a really, you know, he's the lovely, lovely, lovely man, unlike his former colleague, you know, he's a, again, it's a massive cliches, he is the sort of person who would turn up at the office, and just sit there for a couple of hours and have a chat. And, and, you know, he's very well read, and he's very rounded. You know, he's not, he's not one dimensional. You know, it's been it's a lovely is a lovely patron to have an A say, it's not a coup, and he came to us, we didn't go and say, I go back to what you're saying it. He said, he though he likes us because we're pure, you know, we're not corrupted by advertising or, or, you know, you know, we're not chasing the dollar, you know? Yeah, wish we were really wish we were but we don't, because, up until very recently, you know, we were all volunteers. It's only since we've moved into our new premises, which you've seen is that, you know, we've got to be a bit more organized. And, and we've been very lucky with funding. So that pays some wages. But you know, I, the vast majority of my work is voluntary. Again, people in Manchester like that people could spell bullshit mile away. If they see you're doing it for all the right reasons, then, you know, give a little love and eloquence back to you. We're not, you could say we've been lucky. But it's nice that we, you know, we don't take the piss out of people. If there's money to be to be given, we will give people money, but they know that we haven't got any money, they see that the about work? Well, to be honest with a lot people don't see them at work, is that people turn up our office and find there's only two or three of us and there's like where's the rest of you? And we're just like, no, this is it. This is it. This is this is awesome. It's just like, Really? It's a Yeah. So So What, sir? So what what do you do then it is? So this is what I do? You know? And you say? So yeah, so as I said, especially in Manchester, you know, there's a tall poppy syndrome, a bunch of people could smell bullshit. Yeah, they don't like people taking the piss. And we don't, I will, I hope we don't, we've never had anybody, you know. So, you know, you know, we respect everybody who helps us out. We give them their props, and, you know, if we can pay them, we will pay them, but we have a copy money of the best of times. So, and yeah, I hope that, you know, hold that as pay dividends, because we still go in and would prosper in and yeah, you know, we're not making huge strides, but we, you know, we, you know sometimes I sit in our gallery, and I think, where did this come from? But it's a big responsibility to say, Oh, go go back to people like you as well. You know, when I first started sending you the magazine, I was just like, why am I sending this magazine to San Diego, you know, how did he find out about it, you know, is really is really, really humbling. And we sell it we you know, we sent hundreds, you know, America, I think Johnny has a lot to do with Johnny has a lot to do with American, you know, reached out to America, but we send all over the world now. And it's kind of mind blowing, you know that we've got this tiny little magazine in Manchester, written by dorks and nerds, on very nice subjects. But it's really that's a say humbling when people get it, you know, they get it. Yeah. I think again, without being too wacky about it. I think that's one of the things about modernism is, you know, it says it is a universal language. Does that, does that sound a bit white? people, people, and people get it all over the world, you know, people from different cultures and different, you know, countries. You know, we send lows to America, we said lows Australia, South America, Europe and stuff like that. And, you know, I think even the cultural differences. It fascinates me, it really does fascinate me. And we're really really, you know, we love all our subscribers. But you know, we particularly love you know, our foreign subscribers because it's, you know, so great that people on the other side of the planet do what we do, reflecting on some of the points you made that that triggered a few things and may head.
Roy Sharples:Karma is about pushing forward for the greater good, and living your life guided by your passions with a positive and progressive Etude. And being authentic and true to yourself. And cultivating lifelong relationships and partnerships are grounded in honesty, transparency, and trust. And if you're authentic, determined and always willing to put a full shift in Goodness comes to fall in love with your craft and what you do, and to pursue it with intensity, freeing yourself from others expectations and walking away from the games and boundaries that's imposed upon you. Architecture and Design influences how people feel. And it connects emotionally and deeply. And it speaks a global language that everyone can connect to, regardless of their native language and their cultural identity. Similarly, to what music can do.
Eddy Rhead:You know, it's hard work, as I said, we without going too much in and it's Krissy, about, you know, who, who gets paid and who doesn't get paid is I, I don't get paid a huge amount of money. I do not get a bed for money, you know, I get out of bed, but nothing if I can avoid it. I have to get out of bed for a reason in the morning and I have to do stuff, because I want to do it. I'm that kind of person. I'm not motivated by money. By put in, you know, I'm here talking to you when I could have sat downstairs watching the telly having a beer, but I'd rather speak to you about this. Because I like talking about its Grace is my thing. You know, it was our thing, it I dig it. And I love talking about it. Because you know, I'm not evangelicals, not the word. But say it's just brilliant to be talking to you about something that we've done, and that, that you did, and hopefully, other people listening to this podcast would dig in. And that that that makes it worthwhile, you know, that that that makes all them late night emails, and what does somebody call project backlog? It's just so many, so many things. And, and I was joking with Trevor Johnson the other day about this is we've got a few projects, Trevor, for those of you don't know, you did a lot of work for fracture records, design, lots of flyers, and now he's a good friend of ours, we did an exhibition for the 45th anniversary of factory in the gallery last year with him. So he's become a very easy but you know, he's a very generous, again, a very Mancunian thing, he you know, he won't take any money from us, you know, Trump is at the top of his game, you know, he's a bit of a legend and, but as Joker to say, we keep saying to him, do you want to do this next project with us? And he's just like, yeah, God, and it's to say, you know, we can't pay it. So I know you can't baby but we'll do anyway. So we just keep loading all these projects. So but the thing is, is that they're great projects. Yeah, I can, I can say no, to anybody, you know, if somebody comes to me with a stupid daft idea, not daft idea, but an idea that I don't think I'll just say, No, I'm not going to do that. That's not what we do. But people come to us with great ideas, and we have to say yes to it, because and, and we've got low, you know, got loads of things. And it's great, but it's tired, you know, that, that there's so many great projects, we've got covered up and you know, we're just not, there's not enough hours in the day to do them. And we want to do them all, you know, we want to do that was none of them were doing. Yeah, some of them might even lose money in a very factory way. But so we've got a bit of a backlog and especially we you know, I don't want to say the C word, because I hate the way it dominates the conversation, but we have to talk about it. Because it's been a very frustrating year for us, because a lot of our work is you know, getting out and about and meeting people and doing stuff. And it's been very frustrating for us that we've not been able to do stuff, you know, you know, we we get we've had, we've been able to get the magazine out, which has been great, because a lot of it's published remotely, you know, a lot, you know, our contributions all over the world. And thankfully, our printer was able to work through COVID. So we've got the magazine out, so that keeps us connected. And we we've been able to make some short films that we're releasing now. But it's the lack of productivity that I don't like, you know, the lack of events, you know, gauging with our public. Otherwise, you just stuck in a, you know, stuck in a room in an office in Manchester. And that's not what we're about. So that's, that's been very frustrating for us. But we're still we're still doing it, you know, we survived which a lot of people, you know, unfortunately, a lot of organizations have barely suffered. But we've, we've, we've done all right, we've, we've, we've we're still going on but I say it's just very frustrating that we can't plan and organize events and stuff like that, because that's a big part of what we do. So, you know, we've been doing the magazine and we do the publications and stuff like that and totally still connecting with our audience, you know, via them beans, but yeah, I wish we could. I wish we could get back out there and you know, do better. Again, cuz, you know, we like we love doing that,
Roy Sharples:We are on a time machine. And it's going backwards based on your lessons learned to date in terms of the pitfalls to avoid and the keys to success. What would you say to a younger Eddie? I'll fall back Are we going to go? Another way of asking is if you were 18. again today and knowing what you do now, what would you do differently if at all, anything? Nothing, nothing at all? Yeah, at all.
Eddy Rhead:Though, did you pass chosen, you know, and sliding doors and all that and no bullshit, but I was kind of back again, without going too deeply. I spent 10 years as full time househusband, very isolated, as anybody who's looked at a small children will know it can be quite isolated. So I didn't really, you know, socialize much, and then 10 years, but it sort of gave me a 10 years of almost clarity, you know, now that my kids have grown up, and, and I can, that was the, you know, that's the best thing, clearly proud to start with, you know, three beautiful, wonderful children. But then 10 years, you know, I was able to do all the things because I wasn't motivated by work. So I could, I could gain the knowledge that I now have, does that make sense to you. Because you know, that you've got a lot of time on your own. And, you know, so you can read or, you know, anybody's had small children, you know, you you spend a lot of time walking the streets trying to get him to sleep and stuff like that. So you gave him that. So, you know, I would never change that didn't say, I think my experiences as a deadbeat 20 year old are useful, because, you know, and then I spend my, you know, my 30s and my early 40s being a full time, how splendid then, you know, I finally come to a place now. My, my youngest daughter, she's, she said to me, finish 3011. And she said to me, she said, Daddy, when, when you were by age, what would you have liked to don't like to have done when you've grown up? I said, my own magazine and other gallery. That's what you do. Do I do it? I know, it is great. So you know, I'm a great believer, again, without getting on to Tom Cruise about is, you know, there's no such thing as a mistake, I've made many mistakes in my life, boy, you know, it adds to your, you know, it adds to your fabric, if that's if that's the right word and everything you've learned, you know, there's no such thing as a mistake. It's just a learning experience. So know that I've got, I've got no regrets. Life's life's too short for regrets. As I say, you take parts of your life, and hopefully you can eat a cookie is that the word and cookie, it is even a word include it into, you know, what, you're what you're trying to achieve? A bit, I'm very, very lucky, I'm doing something that I really like, I don't work in an office, you know, nine to five. But I don't think I could have got to this place without previous experiences, which have been quite diverse. And you know, again, I've maybe I've been indulged, maybe. But so I'm quite happy where I am right now is a good place to be. I visited your gallery with a friend. Last August, I believe your gallery is the only gallery in Manchester dedicated to architecture and design. How did that come about to find affordable space? I mean, it's very, very difficult. So, you know, as you saw, we were right on the edge of the city center, which is good, because you don't get to buddy randoms wandering in. But yeah, we've got a sympathetic landlord, and, you know, so nice spice. It's got great neighbors and good Street and the rents, you know, affordable, which is unusual in Manchester. Yeah. And, you know, we kind of hope we're adding something to the cultural mix is because there just wasn't anywhere for, you know, independent artists to put stuff. We haven't got an agenda, you know, as if we did it, we put it in with which, you know, most galleries have a selling agenda or, you know, that big institutions, which takes three years to have an exhibition, whereas we, you know, we don't have an agenda. We, if we like it, we'll put it on for you. We can do that. And I think that's something again, could very frustrated about COVID that we've not been able to do that is completely buggered up our exhibition program, which we had, you know. We return, you know, we had a two year exhibition program. Yeah. Which, which, hopefully will get that back on track. Our office was on the third floor of one of the oldest buildings in Manchester, like an 18th century old textile mill. But me and jack were grabbed. That's what I was saying earlier about, you know, two men stuck in a room. And doing the events was the only time we interacted with our public. Yeah. And there was always desperation for us to find a space where we could, you know, express ourselves for one of a better word. And it coincided with this sort of closure of a couple of galleries in Manchester that, you know, used to put on architecture and design exhibitions. And, you know, we might as well be honest about it, there is a commercial side to what we do, because that keeps the lights on, you know, we have to, we have to have an income. Because if we don't have an income, then you know, the magazine doesn't get published. And we can't do it, we can't do our work. So there is a commercial side to it. So, but go back to our saying, the shop that we have is, you know, it's a folly, most of our sales are online, but we sell we looked around for a couple of years looking for the right space in the right place, and there was either too expensive or too far out of town, and, and even landlords, you know, you present yourself. And you've shown the books, and they say, where's the profit in this? And it's just like, we're a nonprofit, you know, and that, you know, they just get you just get a blank look on their face. But sorry, don't understand does not compute how you're going to make money. So we, we plows worry about that. Don't worry by it. And landlords are turned us down because they just don't get it. Yeah. Anyway, we were very lucky with our landlord. he'd heard of us, he knew us and a couple of mutual friends. And he, you know, he liked what we were proposing. Because it wasn't a coffee shop. It wasn't a bar wasn't a barbers. It was something and he was happy to put it in the mix of his buildings. Yeah, we we wanted a space that there are a couple of examples that we've come across around the world. But nowhere is it Britain where it is, you know, it was a shop, an event space and a gallery. And he liked that he did that. And it's been difficult to, you know, people, somebody, some people still wandering the shop, and they go, what, what is this? What is this? I'm just like, Oh, God, can you just work it out for yourself? Do we have to explain it to you? Please practice is practice all over again, you know, you understand why you do something after doing it, you do it first and then you understand afterwards. So the you know, we love the shop, because it means we can fill it with nice beautiful things, we love the gallery, because we can put a nice wall, we can clear all the tables away, we put chairs in another event. So we are going to film shows and stuff like that. So say, you know, there are aren't many other places like it about and obviously we've got our own agenda, there has to be what we're into. But we know we've had other things. So again, that's going back to COVID. It's that's been very frustrating, we've not had the activity in the space that we really would have liked. Because it's nice getting people in through the doors who perhaps won't normally come through. When we have events on you know, we have workshops and talks and stuff like that. And that's been frustrated. And we really, really want to get that, you know, the space isn't fulfilling its fullest potential at the minute, but there's nothing we can do about that. So that's just a bit frustrating. So say if anybody's in Manchester, please come and look us up. We'd love to see you especially people from four months. That's always nice. But because it's a go back early monsters a village you know, and in the shop, it's it's just a long litany long line of people just coming in just talking. Yeah. You know, just talking nonsense. Basically, they're what their own little peccadilloes and I will talk to anybody about anything. You know, I place a reflection in the magazine, you know, we'll talk about flamenco music, if you want to talk about Olympic mascots. That's the kind of conversations we have in the shop, you know, somebody, you know, it's lovely people. People are interested and interesting. Who will come in the shop that you know, and that everybody's got a little story to tell, or have you heard about this Yugoslavian holiday resort? No, I haven't, but tell me all about it, and I will stand there and listen to Yugoslavian holiday resorts for an hour. Trust me. I know. Trust me. So yeah, if anybody you know, we'd love to see. See you in the shop at some time. That'd be lovely. Say average check out the magazine. Unfortunately, we don't sell it in many shops in America. But you know, you can subscribe online but and then yeah, but Please don't get me started on Brexit. That's a whole new thing coming down the line. It's just which is putting a lot of stress on us as as somebody who ships all around the world to Europe, it's very. I can't talk about it, but it's because again, going back to what we said earlier, we're, you know, we're a global community. We don't think that we don't think in those terms. You know, we're brothers and sisters all over the world and, you know, one nation under a groove Indeed it is.
Roy Sharples:Our outputs are the next generations inputs that comes with accountability and responsibility to pass the baton back to the children of the next generation by leaving the world in better shape than we entered it. So make it count. You have been listening to the unknown origins podcast. Please follow, subscribe, rate and review us. For more information go to unknown origins.com Thank you for listening.