Department Chair of Critical Practices in Graduate Media Design Practices at ArtCenter College of Design, Maggie Hendrie hosts a talk about creativity with her practice and Roy Sharples about his journey as an entrepreneur, brand builder, marketer, designer, product developer, and engineer, and compared perspectives along the way.
Creativity Without Frontiers available at all relevant book retailers
Stay in touch with Unknown Origins
Music by Iain Mutch
Department Chair of Critical Practices in Graduate Media Design Practices at ArtCenter College of Design, Maggie Hendrie hosts a talk about creativity with her practice and Roy Sharples about his journey as an entrepreneur, brand builder, marketer, designer, product developer, and engineer, and compared perspectives along the way.
Creativity Without Frontiers available at all relevant book retailers
Stay in touch with Unknown Origins
Music by Iain Mutch
Hello, I'm Roy Sharples, and welcome to the unknown origins podcast. Why are you listening to this podcast? Are you an industry expert or looking for insights? are you growing your career? Or are you at your friend helping to spark your own power? I created the unknown origins podcast to have the most inspiring conversations with creative industry personalities and experts about entrepreneurship, pop culture, art, music, film, and fashion. Today's feature is a discussion with the critical practices in graduate media design practice MFA at the Art Center School of Design in Pasadena hosted by department chair, Maggie Hendry. McGee is an industry pioneer who has deployed numerous interactive products, services, and strategies for a wide array of clients. Maggie and her practice, turn the tables on yours truly, about my journey and compare perspectives along the way.
Maggie Hendrie:I first met Roy, I mean, it started to have a dialogue about what is creativity. And today what I wanted to do was to kind of turn the tables, I think Roy must have interviewed well over 20 people in the last six months about their creative paths, their practice, and how they inform their design and creative intent. So I thought it would be quite interesting to turn the tables and ask him the types of questions that he normally asks of his guests. And in introduction, I wanted to say that prior to setting up unknown origins for many years, Roy was a director in one of the business sections about I think$125 billion worth of business about in Microsoft. So I'm really curious to ask him about how he moved to craft and creativity. And I think with that, I'm going to turn it over to Ryan actually asked him to introduce himself and then I'll jump in with some questions. Hello, Roy.
Roy Sharples:Hello, Maggie. From the first time I experienced the Art Center College of Design. About seven years ago, I was impressed with the Inspire talent within the practice, and always the main full and energized engagement with Maggie. That combined, I always knew you were onto something special. I was born into and grew up in an environment that armed me with a strong work ethic and do it yourself sensibility, which contributed to my need for independence and self dependence at a young age. I looked and felt different, which propelled my natural instinct to be a lone wolf, and to continuously swim against the tide of growing up on the edge of Scotland's Northeastern peninsula. A strong aesthetic orientation, an eye for well designed things, a commitment to making sacrifices, being mentally tough, persistent, and the independence to follow my impulse to create all triggered by imagination. Curiously, it is hardship, melancholy, and adversity that inspire creativity. People who survived poverty, persecution, social alienation, psychological trauma, substance abuse, high stress, and other life challenges that often result in developmental trauma and illness realize that it feels their genius when they are able to capitalize on it. The primal desire to survive the odds with extraordinary intellectual ability, mental toughness, grit, and creative productivity is what fuels an insatiable drive. For self actualization. This in turn, inspires creativity. aspire to be as influential as the things that influence you, not to imitate them, but to influence others in your own creative way. By not letting your environment or anyone within it define you, you define your own purpose and mission. By this I mean creating and adhering to your own personal constraints, barriers, principles and standards, to define yourself by what you are and what you are not. And to appreciate the difference. This means being acutely aware of your tastes and emotions, which will free you to excel at your craft. This ensures that everything you dream about make and do is born of substance and integrity. When you are clear about yourself, you can gauge your future and attract all the right people to your life and into your creative circle. Your goal is to become a model of true ingenuity to be someone that who regularly transcends the status quo, and emboldens others to do the same. As Maggie mentioned, I recently founded a new venture, unknown origins, that's mission is to unlock everyone's creative potential by providing innovative solutions to the creative education and commercial industries that help them build creative capability, drive, audience engagement, and cultivate brand love. My primary purpose is to lead the company by directing the creative and business output that defines its unique brand, portfolio of assets and solutions that encompass advisory, publications, training and community.
Maggie Hendrie:So I do have a question. Right? Let me think this through is I'm, I'm hearing and I hear this and the the people you've interviewed, right, many of us start by actually referring to our childhoods. And I find that really fascinating. And I'm curious about this, right? There's a time when we're become aware of the constraints. And there's a kind of not this. I don't know what the answer is, but it's not this right. Or there's a yearning or there's an inclination. But by definition, if you want to do something that is at the intersection of emerging practices in technology, human factors, art, literature, if you want to do something that is at the intersection of this, it's it's an unclear path, right? So it's not just an unknown origin. It's like an unknown future. And I think many people, at least in this group have had a sense of that from like their childhood. Right. And then hindsight, you look back, and it seems almost like well, if that was a clear pass, right? It's not clear, right? So I'm curious if you could talk a little bit about what the differences were in your your own work when you were in Ford Motor Company, Microsoft, and then the transition to I don't know what the outcome is going to be. But I know, it's time to make that shift,
Roy Sharples:I think is primarily because creativity was not instilled as a core discipline at the grassroots. And it definitely was not nurtured for the most part, through the educational system in a way that really embraced creative confidence because most people tended to be educated out of their creative capacity. And this was largely due to our education systems being designed to meet the bygone needs of the Industrial Revolution, where recall, was valued over imagination. So people from my generation, were more often than not steered away from the subjects that they enjoyed. Because they would never get meaningful, lucrative jobs doing those things. Oh, you're, you're not going to be an artist, you're, you're not going to be an actress. You're not going to be a musician. None of these are likely to earn your money, and so in blah, blah, blah. But then when you look at the, the undercurrent that came through that in terms of the creative throughput from outsiders, misfits and Mavericks that set up their own Ark and seal that alongside the the education, the conventional education system. So, you know, many people like Edgar Allan Poe, or Marlon Brando or Salvador Dali, john lennon, had issues at school. And some of them some of those names I mentioned, I believe were actually expelled from school because of their indifference. And they challenged the system. And all of those have evolved into being creative pioneers and did so largely off their own back, not because their education system enabled them along the journey is because they actually discouraged and ignored their difference and potential, they pretty much did it themselves. breaking rules is what creativity involves doing. And the rebellious nature of the main there's a catalyst to create. That does not mean breaking the law. It means questioning the status quo. And treating what you do is a blank canvas to self Express and provide an alternative. So many of the creatives I interviewed in our podcast series came from similar experiences, combined with many of the jobs that they ended up doing didn't exist at that time, or they invented them themselves. To give a specific example, I had it coaxed out of me at a young age by a teacher to become right handed as opposed to left because it was pretty received as being a disadvantage and associated with witchcraft, which is outrageous. Anyway, over time, this subconsciously made me feel indifferent, and that I needed to swim against the tide harder in order to make to make it. So ultimately, it was actually an advantage. So as I evolved through my education experience, I actually oscillated between the arts, and science and technology. And then when I embarked upon my career, it became quite an interesting dynamic, and that you could simultaneously apply left and right brain thinking, however, that didn't go and mess with peers, raising an eyebrow, or two along the way, how I would approach problems would typically be from an artist perspective, rather than an engineer, when you'd get to the outcome, it would be similar to what an engineer would. But the difference being is that methodology and approach was very difficult for me to explain in terms of how I got to that outcome, as opposed to the more quintessentially critical thinking and engineering minded practitioners, they were able to be a lot more concrete and sequential and methodical about how they got to the outcome. And so that always made me look like at hustled and gunslingers my way through in a very on formulaic way. And sometimes you are ostracized. But within some of those situations, however, I always use that to be in a strength, and being different was was was an asset and a really good thing. The first professional job that I had was a software house in London, and the managing director gave all of the graduates really good advice that really stuck by me. And what he said at the time was when you come out of college university, you're bubbling with new ideas, energy, enthusiasm, how you're going to change the status quo, and all those good things that come through from youth. He said, Never ever lose that, you know, because it's so easy. When you come out of that environment into an organization, it can be extremely stifling. And sometimes you you can submit to that, and become part of a become a cog within the wheel. And before you know it, you're institutionalized. And you've lost the identity and drive and, and vision and energy that you once had. And his advice was never ever lose it and stay true to that as you go through and no matter how many beatings or, or kicks that you can get along the way, stay true to those kind of principles. And that really stood by and, you know, if you're following the flock, you're never going to get farther than the flock, right. So do your own thing at your own style and at your own pace. And yeah, of course, you you will get kicks and punches along the way, but use that as learning and fuel to Accelerate Your Progress and stay on track and stay true to the dreams of your youth to also address the other question around when you sense, it's time to move on and break on through to the to the next wave. What's driven me is the need to be independent, and free to charter my own path, like I see in my own style and pace, and breaking through the doors that you're not supposed to enter or even knock on. But tapping into your primal need to discover and innovate for the greater good and, and making a better world. But being in control of your destiny of your art, if you will. That's been the primary motivation for the decisions. I've made what I've gravitated towards. And also when those parameters don't line up, and I see it I either sense it see it come in, or I just know it. That's the time to move on and find a new
Maggie Hendrie:I'm really interested that you started with the left handed right that works for left handed, which in Scots, we often for those of you who are up on this, we often call Kati fisted or colleague odd. And the word card comes from car, which is the Gaelic for wrong. Yeah. So it's not even left. It's just wrong. Right. And it brings me to this very elastic insensitive area about labels right? We do work that does not yet Have a job title, we do work that may not even have a predefined career path. And it means several things, it means that we spend a lot of our time saying, Well, how do you what do you tell people? You do, right? And then on the other side of that, and maybe I'm projecting onto other people here, it comes with the lack of a label, a multitude of intersectional interests, and yes, I'm an imposter and all of them, right? And faced with a large organization who use these words like induction, right? Hi, how in your experience of interviewing so many creatives Have you seen people navigate that space between, it might not have a label, it might not have a career path, it has value. And the personal feeling of I may be a dilettante or an imposter because I'm new to this space.
Roy Sharples:Okay, let's look at the greatest of all time and their respective fields, if you will, people like Mohammed Ali bjarke, Coco Chanel, George Lucas, Leonardo da Vinci, Frank Lloyd Wright, Walt Disney. They were all classic outliers, who had no attachment to fix definitions of any form of life, or reality really, which is why they became truly great in their chosen fields. They were self defined, self educated for the most part, magical artists, they surprised and excited us. We were attract, we are attracted to their originality and magnetic genius within their respective domain, encouraging us to expect the unexpected, and ultimately, to be entertained by them, and to learn more about ourselves and the world we live in as a result of that. Like artists, athletes are performers and connect deeply with their audiences as fans who feel for what they do, just as a musician sings words to us through songs we value that creative genius because they can do things most of us can only can only dream of. We got over what they do and just like a method doctor, that's what we don't see that makes the difference. The hard work, practice the persistence to perfect the craft and achieve greatness. Athletic greats such as Pelley, George Best DB Cooper, Diego Maradona and Eric Cantona are gifted with extraordinary footballing talent that equated art with technique. Like creatives, their audience perceived them as artists and geniuses, through that exceptional technical ability and creative talent that propelled them to the summit of their athletic progress. They were renowned for their vision, passion, intelligence, quick thinking, flair, and I for goal with powerful and accurate, striking ability, but the bottom line is, they just loved to entertain people and to connect with people deeply and emotionally. They fearlessly lead by example, and they win the crowd by navigating territory where no one else has ventured. They avoid the mainstream and work to develop a deeper relationship between themselves and their audience. Because through the through their authenticity, they live in the moment with conviction and confidence, and always stay true to themselves. They reject the convention that constantly analyze and question and challenge the status quo in everyday life and provide an alternative and bring it to life. People who achieve greatness do not fit a formula or follow a structure. They break the mold by following their own path. And that pattern certainly came through strong with some of the people I interviewed within our podcast series. So let me give a few examples. Specifically, Anita Kearns, who has created iconic art that has been internationally shown and published for four decades decades. She's famous for our covers for The New Yorker, Time Magazine, Rolling Stone, and the New York Times Magazine, and many others. Her work has appeared at numerous galleries and museums, and she's won many awards for it. Her point is that it's never good to try and mimic or manufacture a style because it needs to be authentic, and develop naturally. Johnny Mars is another great example. He spent the last four decades blending the art and science of his craft as a musical pioneer, by connecting to the cards of our soul, influencing popular culture, inspiring 1000s of musicians and affected millions of people's lives through his music. And he said that from the minute he could string a few chords together, he always We saw the playing of an instrument as the pursuit of greatness. He uses the guitar as a tool to make something artistic. So that's his tool. That's his. That's his. That's his trade tool, right that he then uses to enable his his craft and to help enable him to turn his imagination into art and his cases, it's turning his imagination into music. He also paid homage to his strong work ethic and do our ethos through Picasso's motto, that inspiration exists. But it has to find you working and embracing originality and making unique connections between disparate universes to light the way into the future. So his point was around, the idea of feeling like you never know enough is an inspiring concept. And that collaboration is really key to him and how he does his work and how he feigns the future. Because he uses that as a trigger to create new experiences and inspiration, which then equates to innovation. Malcolm got it, who is a graphic designer, who mastered the art and science of creativity, as evidenced by a diverse portfolio that spans again four decades, creating landmark designs for musicians and bands, including the Buzzcocks, Duran Duran, simple mains by George Peter Gabriel, Oasis pulp. And he's done numerous innovative digital projects with the likes of Apple, Virgin, Warner Brothers, Transport for London, design, Manchester and many more and his point, and it was much more around the importance of empathy. The better you do your job, the more invisible you as a designer become. And that's because if you see the design, then that's interrupting the communication process. Communication is just just has to work without thought. So for example, one of the questions he asked me when I interviewed them was, what do you see, when you think about Pink Floyd's the dark side of the moon. And I responded and said, well, it's light, refract, refracting from a triangular prism across a black background. And that visual icon and the record, the dark side of the moon, are inextricably linked, and have thus become synonymous. And that's what a good designer does. So that was a point he was trying to make and use that as an example, to bring that home
Maggie Hendrie:and look to all the people you've interviewed. And I thought, like, as soon as we're no longer on long time, you should have a party at your place with like Johnny Marr and Malcolm Garrett. And
Roy Sharples:wouldn't that be something, if I ever were to happen, then you would need to swing by Hollywood and bring a film crew up here. Because that would be an incredible movie in the making.
Maggie Hendrie:To make sure that other people in the group have an opportunity to ask questions or respond to some of the ideas are coming up in conversation.
Unknown:Yeah, I would. Thank you so much, Roy. And yeah, it's been really great to hear you speak and kind of talk a little bit about your background and the work that you do, we've been talking a lot about kind of like individuals to, you know, attain a level of mastery, and through their own work, kind of create a change in the practice in an area. But you have done and are currently doing a lot of transformations that are happening more on like a group, you know, an organizational level. And it makes me kind of wonder about, like, the connection between, you know, this, you know, being a maverick, you know, doing your own thing and like leadership, and how much like making change in an area, maybe it's different in different areas might be more as much about like, what you can inspire others to do and how you can change the ways that they think as much as it might be about producing a type of, you know, being really good, right? Like just doing, you know, you put you just do the album cover this perfect and put it out there. So I'd love to hear you speak a little bit. Yeah, about that. And kind of like how you, you know, if you've come across that address that people who are doing things differently and bringing a new perspective, and you know, and then the work that they put out, changing the way that other people are working. And I'm wondering how much of that is about the work itself, and I'm, you know, as somebody who's, like, how much of that is about the way they're kind of, you know, that work and the way they're the way that they're working, you know, is inspiring other people you know, rather than just seeing like, so different. And it seems like you've worked both ends of this. I would love to hear you.
Roy Sharples:It is all about attitude. Imagine And execution and great work always, and I mean always stands up and cuts its way through leadership, creativity, innovation, Mahatma Gandhi, and Martin Luther King Jr. led with a nonviolent approach, influencing later resistance by global movements. Nelson Mandela, rebelled against the apartheid regime to remove racism and eradicate poverty and inequality and South Africa. he defied all odds to become president, Abraham Lincoln enacted measures to oppose and abolish slavery in the US. Winston Churchill, inspired people had unique strategic insight, and refuse to give in to evil during extreme adversity to protect Great Britain and the Commonwealth's freedom by rallying a nation and forming strategic alliances with the USA and the Soviet Union. in defiance of Hitler, and the Nazi regime. These leaders stood for purpose, reason and conviction, by seeing their policies through to the bitter end with resilience, grit, and the solid, the solitary intent of making humanity better. They did, they did things that had never been done before they rejected failure and swim against the tide, to provide novel solutions to complex problems that we didn't know exist, forming a new movement culture, with new norms and a way of life. These leaders were flawed and made mistakes. So as they matured, land and reflected, they were ultimately all driven by one common characteristic. They wanted a better world and a better outcome for humanity. Really, in that two organizations, a great leader is someone that enables borrowers to be removed, to enable great work to happen. And to enable people to realize their full potential fire is the job of a true leader in an organization. But let's really look at the systemic aspects of what an organization really is at its core. The bottom line is that all commercial businesses exist to make money. Creating business value requires understanding what drives our business to operate and be successful. And that's revenue growth, operating margin, US efficiency and option value typically, the key is to operate in ways that drive sustained business value by prioritizing and executing the right strategies and tactics, and an adaptive and scalable way. You know, that all sounds straightforward on paper, pure and simple, right? Then you put people into the mix, and it gets murky. The probability of success and failure oscillates wildly, because it is ultimately about people and execution. And when you have more than one person, there is politics. And when people assess their well being, by their own ego, they can become self fulfilling, critical, judgmental, cunning, even manipulative of others and rigid and inflexible. The key is to navigate the unknown and to be agile, by not just adapting to change, but really anticipating change and driving change, and being able to really understand the impact of decisions and actions. And to then either plug in your ideas to that or create your own vehicle. bring people along within that, to then get the right momentum, and to then turn your ideas into actualization. Let me give a specific example. JACK Nasser was the CEO of Ford from 1999 to 2001. At the beginning of his home, he led Ford to be the world's most profitable automaker, with profits over 7 billion, which made him golden and liberated him to experiment and innovate. He dreamed up a vision to transform Ford from being an automaker to a consumer business. He also believed that Ford could not compete across the entire automotive market, including the luxury car space, and for the latter, he formed the premier Automotive Group that consisted of a stable of high profile brands Aston Martin, Jaguar Land Rover, Volvo, Mazda, mercury, and Lincoln. He sought to acquire the automotive ecosystem to have an integrated end to end distribution, operations and supply chain system experience. His ambitious transformation enabled consumers to be able to self select the car that they wanted and to customize online, then have it built and delivered to them. Within 14 days. I believe I might be wrong. The number there but I'm pretty sure it's either that or within that that region. Anyway, he also diversified for the business to encompass ecommerce, car distribution, auto repair shops and junkyards. Although the vision was compelling, the timing to realize it was not particularly within a highly governed complacent and monolithic dinosaur industry where the ability to accelerate the change needed to realize a vision, combined with terrible luck was the inhibitors that shall stop the revolution. Arguably, some of this was out of Jack's control, such as the Ford explorers product recalls due to faulty Firestone tires that Ford had ended up losing the legal case on and had to repay out of their own pocket which cost them dearly, combined with multiple other friction points internally on within the industry. And the auto industry is nosedive, ultimately led to Jack's departure. Jack's vision was premature, especially in comparison to see Elon Musk's which was timely combined with having the right talent, agility and resources to execute by making his vision real. To address one of your other points around the more individualistic Maverick, misfit persona, true innovators see through their audiences very so via intuition, the empirical observational or anecdotal methods. But the bottom line is that they are people of action who are always future oriented. They are the doers, the people who start things, move the world forward and inspire others to do it. Breaking boundaries is part of their daily routine, whether they're doing that individually as entrepreneurs or for themselves, or they're part of a larger team, or a bigger organization. It makes no difference they find that way to make it happen.
Maggie Hendrie:Can I add something that at least I picked up in Evans question is, for example, for a long time I hesitated to use words like designer, I find it easy to I am designing. Right? In part because I kind of do not come from the tradition of like the soul hero with the exceptional skills. Right, Johnny Marr was part of a band, right? And I'm curious about I put I picked up and Evans question was also about what does it mean to be a great collaborator, not just a visionary, or a great creative or to have great craft? How does one know? And how does one become a partner? A co creator, can include inspiring others, but how does what examples do we hear about that?
Roy Sharples:Right? collaboration. So providing something new to the world means overturning the status quo by embracing originality and making unique connections between disparate universes to light the way into the future. So specific to the Johnny Marr. Example in his creative process, and I'm paraphrasing here, so I may get this wrong. He expressed that the idea of feeling like you never know enough, is an inspiring concept to him. And collaboration is a useful trigger for new experiences and inspiration. And what you see in there I, how I intend to internalize that was collaboration was critical for him to find the future, and to innovate on his next project on his next creative engagement.
Unknown:Hi, Roy. It's case ase, good to see you again, I et you when you first came to rt center six years ago. Choose lass or brand strategy. So it's eally nice to kind of circle ack around and see you again, ee where you're at in your areer and where I'm at now, in his master's program here.
Roy Sharples:Not just now looks really futuristic.
Unknown:Thanks. I'm still interested in the work of futures. So I'm hoping to continue that path afterwards. My question is, uh, how did you, you know, maintain and care, you know, for your own, like personal practice, outside of like, these corporate environments that you work through your career, you know, I'm kind of interested in how you continue to kind of fill your reservoir over time. That way. It fed into your creative work now in the commercial side, but also for yourself individually, right. Like you talked about maintaining your child, you know, your childhood, and that there's certain kind of themes that arise You know, I'm kind of interested in like how you kind of continue that path, but continue to replenish it over time. And a second part of that is, you know, work in these larger organizations or kind of like these consultancies. What were ways that you were able to build community into, like your practices, commercial areas,
Roy Sharples:follow your heart and do what you love, by falling in love with your craft, pursuit with intensity, and be exceptional at it. Everything you need is already inside of you. free yourself from others expectations, and walk away from the games and boundaries they impose upon you. Only you know, your true worth realizing your full potential, to live a fulfilled life and to self into achieve self actualization means unlocking and applying your creative potential to doing and excelling at what you love. And remember, as well, our outputs are the next generations inputs. And that comes with accountability and responsibility to pass the baton to the next generation by leaving the world in better shape than you found it. So make what you do count, and maximize your time as best as you can and, and make really good decisions and prioritize your time as best as you can. And then finally, it's it really is all about attitude, imagination, and execution. But there's a few things as well that I'll I'll break down within there to be a little bit more granular. So a few things I would add to that is to know that ridicule is nothing to be afraid of. So for example, if your efforts are met with ridicule, all you have to do is find your inner conviction, that you are doing the right thing and navigating toward your invisible horizons by anticipated and sorry, I meant to say that as navigating towards the horizons that might be invisible to you, but you're determined and have a desire to go beyond to reach them and go beyond them by anticipating future trends inspired by culture, or aesthetics, or, or whatever the driver might be to drive, invention or innovation. And it really is a sure sign that what you do is bold and innovative if you're really dancing to the beat of your own drum. So pay no mind to ridicule. as Prince said, a strong spirit transcends rules. And finally adapt to that. Never be another brick in the wall. Dream make and do be in the moment push forward for the greater good with true grit. conformity never leads to progress. If you have something authentically different to offer, you'll excite and inspire others and ultimately thrive by leading the way into your future.
Maggie Hendrie:So in my my kind of understanding of life, and at Microsoft, especially in departments that do r&d or engineering, there's a structured mechanism, there's a model that's followed there's Trust Fund of understanding and experience that feed into decisions that are made. How has that been different for you stepping away from that and moving into what as you just described, oh, that emerged a podcast emerged or a book emerged or another person to engage with has come into your your orbit. Can you talk a little bit about making that kind of transition?
Roy Sharples:Firstly, independence, freedom and being accountable to no one other than yourself that comes with responsibility and discipline, and being laser focused on what you prioritize how you invest your time, and making smart decisions. Every single day. I'm on a pursuit to optimize my creativity, through manifesting what is inside and also around me in the world. And turning that into a creative output that has value and ultimately, a commercially viable product. I'm always in the pursuit of trying to achieve peak performance, which is a mindset that shapes what you do and how and your pursuit for excellence and self actualization. And this is done by committing to be in your best every single day by performing to the maximum of your ability and see challenges as opportunities to continuously learn and grow and taking a global view and mind and commit to the mission by making sacrifices. Putting in those those hours and persistence and the mental toughness needed to drive successful outcomes. So that's something that I'm continuously trying to fuel and discipline myself each and every day to try and aspire to those levels of excellence. On the other side of the spectrum, working in large organizations, you do learn a lot about how to influence a large diversity of people and audiences, and how to scale products and services globally, and into multiple geographies, industries and segments. And also how to grow businesses at scale, how to also build startup businesses from the ground up direct to consumer. And if you're fortunate is to have access to quality resources, and to work with exceptionally talented people across multiple domains and disciplines. And that raises your bar and makes you better at what you do. And it educates you more, not just about your core domain, but also about multiple domains and how they all fit together, and how the whole end to end system of business works. But when I moved on from that world, there was an element of decompression within the transition phase, though after that, it was rejuvenating, where the world is back in front of you, rather than behind you. And what's been extremely encouraging is how productive the collaborations with people have been to date, and how good things just seem to gravitate towards one another. And, and really good, talented people coming together with a will to do something worthwhile and interesting. creative people are people like you and me. Ordinary people who do extraordinary things. The ability to be creative exists within everyone. It manifests itself in every domain and profession. Under any age. You never lose the ability to be creative, and fine. I believe that creativity increases time because we all gain more knowledge and insight, as we experience more of life. Life events provide us with more reference points, and the knowledge gained through experience in them are combined with our imagination, maintaining our childlike wonder throughout life. Insight truly knows no bias. You have been listening to the unknown origins podcast. Please follow subscribe rate review us. For more information go to unknown origins.com Thank you for listening