Unknown Origins

Alicia Samuel on Technology Leadership in the Fashion Industry

December 03, 2021 Alicia Samuel Season 1 Episode 91
Unknown Origins
Alicia Samuel on Technology Leadership in the Fashion Industry
Show Notes Transcript

Alicia Samuel is the Senior Vice President of Information Technology at Holt Renfrew, considered Canada's fashion and lifestyle retailer. 

Alicia has over 25 years of experience in technology leadership and innovation expertise by connecting people, processes, and technologies to deliver outcomes that support the goals of businesses at several Canadian Retailers and during her time in technology consulting, evangelism, and business development at Microsoft and IBM.

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Music by Iain Mutch 


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Roy Sharples:

Hello, I'm Roy Sharples, welcome to the unknown origins podcast. Why are you listening to this podcast? Are you seeking inspiration? an industry expert, looking for insights, or growing your career? I created the unknown origins podcast to provide access to insights and content from creators worldwide with inspirational conversations and storytelling, about art, architecture, design, entrepreneurship, fashion, film, music, and pop culture. Alyssia. Samuel is the Senior Vice President of Information Technology at Holt. Renfrew, considered as Canada's fashion and lifestyle retailer. Alyssia has over 25 years of experience, and technology, leadership, and innovation expertise by connecting people, processes and technologies to deliver outcomes that support the goals of businesses across several Canadian retailers on during our time and technology consulting, evangelism, and business development at Microsoft, and IBM. Hello, and welcome, Alicia. So what attracted you to technology in the first place?

Alicia Samuel:

So for me, when I started in early on in my career, I had no intention of getting into technology, I was supposed to be a lawyer. And what happened was I needed I was working on getting some tuition money as I was going to the University of Toronto. And I had this opportunity that presented itself to work on a project for one of our banks here called CIBC. And it was a technology project that involved doing technology changes across Canada for all of the different branches from a mainframe environment to a client server environment. At that time, I was young, still in school had no real clue about what mainframes did, or what client server technology was at the time. And I probably won't talk about what that LS system was, because that will date me. But it was a project really with the intent of me getting some tuition money. What I didn't realize that came out of that 18 month project while I was there, part time working on the project, but the rest of a phenomenal team was how much I enjoyed it, what I learned how my curiosity and passion for continuous learning evolved out of that project. And made me want more, it wasn't what I wanted to understand it more, I wanted to understand the whole networking and architecture pieces of it. And so that's what draws me into technology as a career. So I finished my degree in political science and history, but also focused on building out that technology career and had a phenomenal experience working with companies like IBM and Microsoft. As I was going through it, and learning more and working on incredible projects that I had the ability to be involved in. I was also doing my technical training. And just learning so that that whole passion and want to know more came out of this opportunity that happened while I was in university. It's one of those things that when I do have conversations with my kids or family members or from I'm giving a talk on women in leadership I always talk about is that take the opportunities, you don't know where things are going to to get you. But if you're passionate, you love to learn, you're curious. It can get you into incredible places,

Roy Sharples:

having that kind of mindset. It's like it's like a toolbox that you can adopt to anything that comes your way. But that's really serendipitous in terms of how that happened. And almost accidental, you did something for a different reason. I enjoyed it so much and got so much out of it and it changed your direction. And it

Alicia Samuel:

was timing as well. At that time. There weren't a lot of women coming out of technology or comp side programs. Yeah. So CIBC took a chance on me and said, Hey, there's something there. She's got potential. She's young, she's curious. She wants to learn. So we're going to invest in her to to learn and to build out that technology career. And for me that that became a 25 year career in technology. And it's just been it's phenomenal. I'm still learning, still always learning. There's there's so much to technology to learn. So I'm very grateful and humbled by by the experiences I've been given.

Roy Sharples:

What was it like entering a technical career track when you did, Ahmed the general stereotypical comparatively fixed beliefs and attitudes of command and control, Business Cultures, hierarchies and male superiority,

Alicia Samuel:

oh, it was tough it was it was, I was so used to being not just the only woman in the room, but the only woman of color in the room. So it was quite an experience to to be in that environment and also my age at the time to coming in, out of university starting to learn about all of these different things becoming a subject matter expert so quickly in some of the technologies. And then I in turn, ended up in some roles, teaching others about this technology, teaching others who who didn't look like me that were my were not my gender. And were also older than than me at the time. So that all that whole experience, it was difficult. But knowing that, I trusted myself, and I knew the I know that I earned the spot to be there, made quite a quite a difference in my confidence levels. And as I was learning more, because I always figured I had a bit more to prove. So I'm gonna work a little bit harder at it. I think that also cultivated and became a part of, of who I am, as, as I go through it, like I sometimes, you know, sit down with my teams, and they're going through and they're talking about some in depth code issues that they're troubleshooting. And I'll say, oh, yeah, I want to be part of that call. Where I don't have to be part of the call. But I but I remember enjoying all of the, you know, the the curiosity behind learning about what's happening, or something new, or what's the root cause of something so that we can fix it once and for all and move beyond that, like, those things still intrigued me. So at my level, I always jump in with my teams, I'm on war room calls with them quite frequently, as well, if there's any issues so that I can help guide but also help listen and learn. Because that's a very big part of, it never stops, you need to you need to enjoy that continuous learning,

Roy Sharples:

embracing diversity, and difference helps us both understand each other, and ourselves and recognizing and respecting our individual differences in gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, age, physical abilities, social and economic status, religious and political beliefs, and other ideologies needs to be the norm and, and accepted without question. And when people feel included, they build meaningful social relationships have a stronger sense of belonging and inspire creativity and innovation in themselves and others. But also, the purpose of organizational development really should be to provide leading edge thinking, practice and programs. And so creating and curating a culture of thinking, learning and doing is how people learn and pass on information. And the more you interact and collaborate with people from different cultural backgrounds, disciplines, industries, geographies, the more you understand respect and value them, and the more enriched and fulfilled, your life experience will be, we all benefit from learning from others. Also Alyssia, you shone a light on the importance of having an insatiable appetite for curiosity, and continuous learning, and also treating failure as a step forward, as opposed to backward or a reason to disengage? And ultimately, this is essential to achieving personal mastery? Oh,

Alicia Samuel:

absolutely. I would say that, again, it goes back to that, that learning that learning is things will be successful, and things may fail. And it's kind of getting through those, those mistakes that you might make, or that might be disruptive and knowing how to come out of it. So okay, this happened, how do you come out of it? And that's actually one of the things that I'd like to talk about it with my teams is that I'm, I've heard this term and I'm going to use it. It's not my term. I actually heard it, so. But it's called mistake friendly. So when I'm talking to my teams, I said, you know, we're gonna know what we know. We have an incredible team that has different experiences from from different positions that they've held, or different projects that they've worked on, where we're going to make mistakes. And so the ability is to quickly detect what that is. And then what do you do after how do you how do you fix it after and we've got the right skill set to be able to do that. But you have to learn from these mistakes, because then you have the ability in other projects to identify the dark hallways, and you know what's coming at you. But even if you don't, you've got a toolkit that allows you to understand if To make a mistake, I know how to do this, and to get out of it. So I think that's really important as part of your your career and your learning, not ever, if you're always learning from, you know, always doing everything successful all of the time, well, there's a part of you that hasn't learned something, and you need to be humbled by that sometimes. Now, I always say, a mistake family, but but let's try and you know, keep the the dollar cost of that mistake down if we can, right. But it's that build up that toolkit to know what to do to get out of it quickly, so that we can lessen the impact of anything that we do,

Roy Sharples:

how much has been born into and brought up within a diverse community shaped your outlook on life. And considering you decided in both Toronto, and Trinidad growing up,

Alicia Samuel:

it was very interesting to me born born Canadian, grew up here. And then I would travel back every summer and I lived in Trinidad for two years and experienced the education system, which followed the British model of education. And, for me, the growing up in in Canada, you know, very happy that it's Toronto is incredibly diverse as it is, but going down to Trinidad and having that opportunity see that your Prime Minister is is of color that, you know, there are people of color that have ownership of businesses that are executives, and all that allowed me to see something in myself that it was as we go through, as you know, just some of the changes that are happening, the awareness around diversity and inclusion, and equality. In organizations here, well, it's a little bit different in the Caribbean, when you're growing up, because you're seeing it all around you, you're seeing a diverse mix of people you're seeing execution in incredible ways for in government and in social, environmental and business. So you don't have the same. So for me, I'm like apply see it, I can do it. Yeah. And I'm here, it's now trying to focus more on the DEI focus to make sure that, you know, we are recognizing that people are different, and ensuring that our opportunities are equal, and that the skill set that people are bringing to the table are the right skill sets, and it's representative of, of just the the demographics of where you're at. So it for me, that kind of mold did me in the fact that I always knew that I could do whatever I wanted. It didn't hold me back, I talk to my kids all the time. And I say she could be a prime minister of Canada, if you like, you could do whatever you want. So I think that that, that has helped me, especially growing up, you know, here and and really kind of navigating what it is to be a woman of color in a high tech world and trying to navigate getting to where I am, where I am in my career, based on my skill sets experience, you know, my ability to, to lead and get an understanding that a lot of of who I am and the confidence that I have comes from being able to see, you know, what, what I know, and you know, and also being able to know that I can I can execute and do these things

Roy Sharples:

that must have been very liberating. And also just the ability from a young age to really have the opportunity to fully embrace diversity and difference,

Alicia Samuel:

it's appreciating the and being aware of each person's individuality, and not judging them because of color, religion, you know, all of those different things with the organization and with the DEI programs that we have here. A lot of it is around education and awareness of everyone that that you work with, that are diverse. So there's a there's a lot of learning for all of us, right. For from for me to understand other religions because you know, good, regular Catholic, right, girl, so so, you know, I pick up the Koran, and I read it, and I was like, oh my god, this is beautiful, right? It's like, it's so similar to a Bible like in just like the whole notion of what actually comes out of it. But it's, it's, it goes back right to that ability to learn and appreciate humanity. Yes. And appreciate why we exist in this world. And, and why it's on purpose. why would why there's different colors, why there's you know, different races, different religions, different genders, right? And just going in there with that just pure, humanistic, kind of I want to know more about you and not judge you because you may look differently, or have a different religion or whatnot or be you know, male, female or or whatever you identify with. So, I think it goes back to as a skill that I'm trying to do with the kids is that as they grow up, it comes back to get, you know, get to know other diverse cultures other than yourself, you know, it's learn about the differences, but and appreciate the differences that people have and look for the commonalities in your humanity. Right. And so that's kind of the philosophy that I have. And, you know, I see that coming out of some really good T AI programs too, or are kind of basing them in that, in that philosophy. Look for the commonalities in humanity.

Roy Sharples:

So what is your creative process? In terms of how do you make the invisible visible by dreaming up ideas, developing them into concepts, and then bringing them to actualization?

Alicia Samuel:

For me, I've always been a very visual person. And a lot of my process and thinking about an issue at hand is to try and figure out how to do how to how to creatively get to a solution that isn't. In our speak, it's a MVP, minimal viable product, right? Yeah, least amount of effort most most value. And so I found that the traditional means of, you know, going through and researching and reading the documentation, interviewing all, you know, all those different things. It For Me, what works better is that alignment and collaboration with people that I know, that are incredibly smart, that are around me, and bringing them into the process with me, so that we could whiteboard together on what it is our our angled, is, but you know, kind of work do a work back to that by creating just these mind maps. Of what if, what if we did this? Or what if we turned it on this side? Or what if we looked at it this way, you know, all with the guiding principle of what it is that we're trying to execute on. And that works very well for me for the way that I think, because, as I said, I'm very much a visual person. So I love bringing in that kind of fast way fast way of getting to a solution with a collaborative team that will bring in ideas that I hadn't thought about, that's why you want to have a diverse team around you, right? You want that different thinking into what it is that you're trying to solve for. Because I know that you know, I may have seen some things, or I may have a 25 year old career, but I don't know. Like, there's still so much that I don't know. And that's where I have, like, I always make sure that the team that I have are, are great thinkers that bring different experiences. And that can add value to the conversations that we're having while we're trying to solve. And we listen, it's very, very hard sometimes to sit down. And it's like, Okay, what's your opinion, and you're really taking when you're like, already in your mind, you're already solution dead, right? You got to take a step back sometimes and allow the process to help you get there. And if you get there rapidly, very quickly. But it's just, that's kind of my approach to to bringing the design thinking into the solutioning. And making sure that the team that I have that are being part of this process, are bringing their ideas to the table to help us help us help us kind of figure out a new and interesting and innovative way of approaching a problem, it really comes down to the people that you're involving, in the process, I don't want somebody that's going to think exactly like me, I want somebody that that is going to happily debate some of what we're putting on the table and get us to think in different ways. So I think that that has to be part of the process. And oftentimes you find that when teams are pulled together you people are looking for, for similar people to be in the process. Yeah, I go, I'll go the opposite. I want to take I want to take that opportunity if depending on how complex the issue is, and what it is I'm trying to solve, to bring in other people with different ways of thinking, that can drive out some of the things that may not have been thought out. And sometimes it's difficult, you know, you've seen as a senior leader in the team, that's and everyone's looking to you for your expertise. I'm kind of looking for everybody to allow them to voice, their, their expertise and what they've seen as well so that we can drive to solution together.

Roy Sharples:

You're instilling the creative atmosphere there so that people feel safe and secure to create or ideas without fear. What are the key skills needed to be a technology leader?

Alicia Samuel:

I think you've got to be a very active listener. You've got to be able to communicate to the team in a way that instills and inspires and motivates especially in this day and age coming out of the pandemic where such a significant life event that is impacted everyone from from a mindfulness and from a well being perspective of a model is very cautious of that, but the team's because everyone's gone through so much. So how do you inspire and motivate becomes really important on the team? How do you get the team behind what it is that your strategic objectives are for an organization is important. Being able to kind of navigate through some of the complexities that may be thrown at you, and and involve the right stakeholders and build those relationships in order to execute well, on the on the issue at hand. So there's a, there's, there's a lot to leading a team, but it's also how's the team going to lead you by really understanding that you're hiring a team around you that's going to bring different perspectives and different experiences, and being the kind of leader that that can understand and have that humility, to be able to understand what the what the team is bringing to you, but also be able to lead and execute and get things done. So that balance, that happy balance between the two is really important. So there's a I believe it's Forbes and the author. Take a look, there's an article about Ted lasso, what kind of leader he is, in terms of how he builds relationships, and his humility, his his ability to be humble, as a leader, and then so all of those great aspects of him the question in the article was, is he a great leader? And the answer is yes. But he also needs to be able to execute, right? So for on the relationship building on the, on the just how he is as he interacts with his team and how he recognizes the potential in everyone. Yeah, there's also that that piece of it's around competition, you you're in it to win it, right. So you've got it, you got to focus on that piece of the competition piece, as well as that humility, humble, servant leadership aspect of leadership. So bringing those two skill sets together becomes really important. I actually love that article, I thought it was really great. And I love to blossoms,

Roy Sharples:

his leadership style is built on empathy and relationship, building, and putting the needs of the team first, which promotes the message of the power of togetherness, which is countercultural to the stereotypical corporate management or sports management style of stereotypical stereotypically authoritarian, autocratic management style in which the coach the manager has the total decision making power and absolute control over his his team and subordinates with and they make decisions with little to no participation from anyone else.

Alicia Samuel:

That's why the article is so interesting, because it's really dissecting him, because it's such a popular show trading is dissecting, is he a good leader? And asking that question, because he's got a, he's trying to achieve a certain outcome. And how was he going about it without really knowing that much of the environment that he's in there, because he's learning as well, right. So it was very interesting to read and establish that. But at the at the root of that, it's about being humble enough to know that you've got to engage a team that brings diverse thought to the table, that will be able to be competitive, and be able to execute and to get it done, but also drive out that, that critical thinking and that design thinking that's required to be innovative. And it's very hard to do. And it's hard to get teams like that. It's almost like I usually call them my unicorns, when I can find a find the technologists that can bring all the different pieces like that together, and they're out there.

Roy Sharples:

So you're in a time machine, and it's going backward. Based on your lessons learned to date, what are the pitfalls to avoid, and the keys to success that you can share with aspiring technology executives.

Alicia Samuel:

For me it was getting a mentor early, early on, I didn't I didn't get a mentor. And I wish I had I think about networking and sharing a sharing, sharing thoughts and ideas with other individuals who are in similar positions. And really kind of working out that relationship management piece of of the of your self, you're not even in a role but who you are and how you learn from other people's experiences, so like they'll share groups that are trusted that work in groups that you have where you Can I ask you the question? If I was in a situation like this? What would you say? Yeah, so what would you do? You know, so mentorship becomes really, really important. And I kind of did that a little bit later on in my my career, I just see that that so much value and having to do that earlier. One of the other things is, even though I was in technology, and I was jumping into a world that was unknown, when I really when I first started, and then I started getting confidence, I still wasn't confident, I still questioned myself, I still questioned what people would see in me, when they look at me, if they would think that I would be a driver of, of getting things done, right. And so I always felt that I had to prove myself. So I think I would have said, you know, you'd be a little bit more confident than than what you were. Because you're smart, and get it done. You have experience and trust in those things Be your authentic self. Then the other thing on authenticity is that I wish I was more authentic a little bit earlier, too. Because for me, the when I was when I was coming up in my career, there was a whole different mindset to organizations where there was organizational hierarchy. And in turn organizational power. So you always felt that you were in a in a room and you you knew what your position was, and you kind of look to your manager to speak at, you know, things like that, right. And that was kind of the just the side of the times that's how it was. But for me when I, when I got into a room, or what I believe in, which is a lot of around servant servant leadership, is that when you have when you're building your teams, your teams, how you work with your teams, and how you listen to them, and how you take, you know, their thoughts and their ideas. And work with it to in the solution is a little bit different. So So essentially, your title goes out the window, and you're sitting down there, and you're being humble in front of a team saying, Listen, we got to execute and deliver on this and show value, how are we going to do that, right, that engage engage your team to be able to do that, for when I was when I was coming up in my career, that was not the way that things were done. So I always felt that I wasn't being my authentic self, because I was caught up in this rigor of hierarchical structure. And of course, that's, that's changed and changed direction. So it just, for me on how to navigate, I think I would say just maintain your authentic self. And I'll give you an example. There was one time I was in, in a position. And I asked for feedback all the time. And I said, you know, can I just get some feedback of what do you think your, um, I'm doing or where I need to work a little bit harder on and the way that my personality is, you know, I, I'm not going to come in to a room and be the, this is the way things get done. Let's do it like this, right? I'm going to listen, observe, engage, make decisions, where I need to make decisions, engage the team in order to help us get there. So one of the comments was, well, you need to be, and I won't use the words that were used to me, but essentially, if I translated it was, I have to be incredibly, I have to be more aggressive, like a man. So and so like, No, I don't think that I need to, and I'm so happy that they said that I said, at the time without really understanding how to be your authentic self. Yeah, I actually said no, I don't think I need to I'm not gonna change the way that I am as a leader. Good. And I was so happy that I that I had said that, because that's what was associated with successful women was seeing women that were coming in, you know, guns ablaze. Having the setting settings, and that wasn't me. So I was gonna do it differently. And I was so happy that I had said that to that executive. So thank you for your feedback, but I'm not gonna change the way that I lead because I like to engage people and I don't think that especially a woman of color needs to come in and be more aggressive. Given the some of the stigma, it's the, the conversations around assertive versus aggressive, especially with women.

Roy Sharples:

What's your vision for the future of technology in the fashion industry?

Alicia Samuel:

We could be so disruptive in retail in retail in general, but but in the fashion industry, there's so many ways to to use technology, and I think about it in the context of what is what is the Industrial Revolution 4.0 bringing to the table right so we all hear about, you know, IR four, and you hear about IoT and quantum, and you hear about AI and ML and all of the technologies that are coming in And, and the difference in this revolution is that we had technology in the last one. But now it's this interaction of how this technology is going to happen between each other, that's going to cause disruption in the way that we do things we think about, like 3d printing, and you know, all those things. So we have an ability to use technology in an incredible way that engages when you look at what retail is really all about. And you want to engage a customer, you want them for life, and you're trying to do that amongst a lot of competition, and a lot of a lot of other retailers vying for the same person's attention. And you can see it in your email when you're going through and you're seeing like, you know, 50 emails of neurotic, this coupon and get 10% off do this, do that, you know. So it's really becomes the engagement of not the communication to a customer, but the engagement of a customer. And it's across multi channel, as we've all heard, right? So what are you going to do in brick and mortar? What are you going to do online, that's really going to engage somebody to say, hey, I want to shop with you, because you know, me, you know what, what I'm looking for you notice when it'd be lovely when you have like a birthday that that you don't have to remember about it, but you're going to get something hey, by the way, once you come and pick up this basket for so until his birthday, like that true engagement, well, the technology behind that exists. And we have an ability to, to use that to to do great things. And if there's one thing that pandemic has taught us, it's taught the whole world is how to use technology, when other means aren't available. How do you get online? How do you how do you purchase the things that you need when you can't get out of your house. So I'm not saying there's a comfort level with it, I'm just saying that there's a different way of, of, of utilizing technology now, in the last couple of years that we've learned. So now, as we look forward, we've got such a great opportunity in, in technology to do even more. And it's a matter of taking that creativity and understanding how you can be innovative in the ways of work the way that we currently do think

Roy Sharples:

having a social conscience and empathy for the environment. By continuously managing innovation that powers the products you design, make and sell and the businesses you run by caring deeply about the world we live in its inhabitants inclusivity and the pursuit of making people's lives better and moving society forward. A friend and fellow entrepreneur in sustainable fashion, shared his insights recently about the fashion industry and how it produces more carbon emissions than all international flights. And maritime shipping combined. 20% of global wastewater comes from textile production, and more than three fifths of clothing ends up and incinerators or landfill within a year of being produced corporations. And in fact, everyone needs to be educated and to recognize that the environment is for everyone to enjoy, and to embed sustainability and the principles of the circular economy as unimpeachable pillars of humanity and to encourage Sharon, to reduce conflict as a leader in the fashion industry, what are you doing to address the challenges of sustainable fashion, and embedding the principles of the circular economy? And what you do and how

Alicia Samuel:

well that all plays into the circular economy? Right? So we as we look at our ESG policies need to understand what we're doing how to how to lessen the impact of things getting into the landfill, as uses as an example, especially in textiles, and apparel. And so I have to say, my organization is incredible, how they look at the material sustainability, what we use in our clothing. They look at the vendors that we work with, they look at the ability to drive out the circular economy. And what does that mean? How do you reuse clothing or gently used clothing so you'll see some organizations coming up with marketplaces that allows for, you know, a gently used item to be resold into into the market so that you get more uses out of clothing before it actually hits into a landfill. Or you take something that has been produced with these materials, Dr. Take out those materials when it's returned into your organization and create something new, right so that it becomes that circular economy that that is so important that we that we need to focus and figure out you know, how how to be innovative around these different pieces. I want to think about technology as an example. We have always taken our laptops and we've always put it into recycling programs right that's that's just a standard thing. You take a look you put into recycling programs or if they're, they're gently used and can be used into other communities, then you donate those thought into the community so that they're still being used. And it lessens the time to getting into a land a landfill. But there's more that can be done in a circular economy from doing just recycling and getting carbon credits for for it right. There's, there's more of how do we, as an organization, take out some of these components and these parts? And how do you know, this is where we did that creative thinking on? You know, how do you break it down and reuse it and make something out of it. And it's not just how we're approaching it. It's also how we are attracting talent to talent to our organizations, because talent is looking for organizations that are doing more for ESG programs, that part of that's part of what they look for when they're looking to join an organization is part of what I looked for. Yeah, to be quite honest, when I was joining this new organization, I wanted to see what their their policies on sustainability were. So even just to attract the right talent into your organization requires that you've got to be thinking about what you're going to be doing for a circular economy and how that's driving out what you need in the business and how you're reporting against it.

Roy Sharples:

Just how soon is the future? One thing for sure is, the future is unwritten and everything is possible. Do you want to learn more about how to create frontiers by unleashing your creative power and consider getting CREATIVITY WITHOUT frontiers? How to make the invisible, visible by lighting the way into the future. It's available in print, digital and audio on all relevant book platforms. You have been listening to the unknown origins podcast. Please follow, subscribe and rate and review us. For more information go to unknown origins.com Thank you for Listening