Tanya Denning-Orman on Indigenous Media Broadcasting

Tanya Denning-Orman, a proud Birri and Guugu Yimidhirr woman from Central and North Queensland, who leads National Indigenous Television (NITV), an Australian channel dedicated to Indigenous voices, overseeing its diverse and innovative multiplatform content, since it joined Special Broadcasting Service's (SBS) in 2012, and more recently became SBS's first Director of Indigenous Content. Tanya plays an instrumental role in developing and delivering First Nations storytelling across the SBS network.  As a champion for strong Indigenous media, she holds several industry Board positions, including Media Diversity Australia, First Nations Media Australia, and the World Indigenous Television Broadcast Network.

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Transcript

Roy Sharples: 0:06

Hello, I'm Roy Sharples, welcome to the unknown origins podcast. Why are you listening to this podcast? Are you seeking inspiration? an industry expert, looking for insights, or growing your career? I created the unknown origins podcast to provide access to insights and content from creators worldwide with inspirational conversations and storytelling, about art, architecture, design, entrepreneurship, fashion, film, music and pop culture. Tonya Denning Arman manages the national indigenous television on Australian channel dedicated to indigenous voices, overseeing its diverse and innovative multi platform content. Tanya also plays an instrumental role in developing and delivering First Nations Storytelling Across Australia's special Broadcasting Service Network. With more than 20 years experience working in media, Tanya has previously held positions as a journalist and producer for ABC and SBS and a number of different roles at NITV. Since its inception, in 2007, as a champion for strong indigenous media, she also holds a number of industry board positions, including media diversity Australia, First Nations media Australia, and the World Indigenous television broadcast network. Hello, and welcome, Tanya. So what inspired and attracted you to pursuing your career and indigenous content broadcasting in the first place?

Tanya Denning-Orman: 1:48

I grew up as an 80s kid, and very much influenced by that box in our lounge room. And, you know, I was in a lot of it. But I also noticed, the world I was growing up in, and the family that I was in community was not represented, I think, you know, it's, it was quite young, and not that I really had that can, you know, complete thought process of inclusion. But I was always quite curious over how Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander issues were being represented on screen. So quite early on, I had a sense of inequality in that sort of part of the world as well, as you know, I was going to school. And notice, in a lot of the education was not what I known, and how Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people were being taught about, was not what I was taught. So as I got older, and, you know, I saw the power of what the news would do, my dad would put the wireless on and that information how, you know, observe the world around me, and, but I was, I think I was about 10 years old, and I saw this Aboriginal woman actually reading the news. And I, it just floored me actually, that there was this beautiful black woman, not only was she you know, in command, but her authority of that information was just so empowering to me. And I basically thought, well, if she can do it, possibly I could do it as well. And I grew up in a mining town, so you didn't really see females in, you know, even in many professional positions. So for me that influence and that speaks layers to where I am today of the power of media, you know, we want Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander kids and people in general to see themselves and see themselves represented positively on screen as well. So I was only young and I saw an opportunity I saw a way out of my town as well through journalism and, you know, remain Colby was her name. And, you know, she really was quite a catalyst to my career where I went straight into university after high school and, but this was still the early 90s. And it was really quite hard to get in the door, but I kept on knocking on the door into you know, that stage also, there wasn't any indigenous channel, it was all about just being in a newsroom and reporting on any, you know, the inequalities around me not just indigenous issues. I just really wanted to reflect the world. And so I felt that it wasn't being reflected, you know, honest way So, I am really got inspired through those sort of fields of empowerment. And that's what attracted me as a journalist. And then I ended up, you know, eventually they let me in the door at the ABC. And you know, I love that and I end up setting up my own production company. And then, in 2007, I had my production company, I was quite happy doing journalism, and also creating some documentaries. And then this opportunity to be a part of the beginning of the national indigenous television in 2007. So I took that as a part time gig. Because, you know, at that stage, I had reported or been a part of mainstream media. But this idea of having an indigenous channel available to not just indigenous communities, but for all Australians was something really, I found really exciting. Of course, at that stage, it was just an you know, it wasn't I didn't have remit into Australian homes, it only had four years of funding from the federal government. So we didn't know where the indigenous channel was going to go. And I didn't think I'd be still a part of it 14 years later. And so, you know, I guess timing was right, and I go back to that little girl from the 1980s. And that still drives what we do today, to ensure that indigenous children, indigenous people can see themselves on screen and included, but also, a major reason we existed is because of the one of the recommendations from the Royal Commission into Aboriginal deaths in custody, and was the reporting, you know, how our issues are being reported on or lack thereof. So we stay true to that of what inspired me back in the day, to this day.

Roy Sharples: 7:06

So what is your creative process in terms of how do you make the invisible visible by dreaming up ideas, developing them into concepts, and then bringing them to actualization?

Tanya Denning-Orman: 7:19

What I love about the work the world I mean, is it's it truly is collaboration. What inspires me is, you know, it's been really hard the last two years, pretty much, but being in community, and being a, you know, I go to festivals and events, and, you know, I like to connect with people, and I've always loved even as a journalist, so inspired by people who want to share their stories, and, and it's funny what a microphone or, you know, what comes out of people that, you know, a medium that allows people to, maybe they'll talk to you in a way that they wouldn't talk to their own family members. And so I get inspired by that honesty. And so my process really, you know, I would always like to just be out and about and listening and hearing and observing what people are doing what they're talking about. And, you know, we've got strategies, and we're here and we get data and algorithms, you sort of understand what's going on in the digital space, and, and what sort of what's coming through in our ratings and our data. But there's nothing like just human interaction and connection that really sort of spurs me on, you know, and when we, we knew we wanted to say do more children's content, even though a lot of Australian networks are moving away from children's content, because it doesn't have that same sort of return on investment and the lights, but for me, were spurned on by the fact that we need inclusion, we need to see kids represented in the world, and they need to hear their accent, so they need to hear themselves. So we know we want kids content, but then, you know, it's important to connect with the filmmakers who were in that creative space, it's important to connect with kids and connect with professionals who work in that space to sort of get a bit more of an understanding of, you know, what the trends and, you know, I love doing creative hot houses, I love what creative workshops and, you know, our sector is pretty incredible with the different ideas that come through. And so, I would like to, you know, I like to put a general idea out there and then people come back and we workshop and collaborate and there's always brilliant ideas. And then the biggest challenge then is how do we fund it, and how do we make it you know, something that is palatable for an audience so you know, you You sort of work with the ecosystem. If that doesn't sound too crazy as a creative process, so you got to know what the demand is what the desire is, but you also got to be on the edge and sort of hearing what potentially is coming up, and then you bring it together. And, you know, really refine it, after you define it. And, you know, sometimes along the way, it doesn't end up quite being where you want it to be. But then, you know, after, you know, we've had an incredible success on the most craziest of ideas that have come in from filmmakers. And, for instance, the commission this series from an of course, he He's a remarkable filmmaker, but Warwick, Thornton, we commissioned a series called the beach and it was, you know, it's about him. You know, his sobriety actually, just, you know, long before COVID was a thing, it was about getting to know who you are as a person, and what's it like in isolation, what's it like to really get to, you know, front your demons. And, you know, he came to us with this idea. And so yeah, just, you know, you'll just watch me on the beach. And, you know, it sounded a bit crazy at the time, but he just know, with these filmmakers, as well, that they're on the edge, yeah. And then we correlate it into what we know the audience's will be looking for and afterwards, so it's that it's a real collaboration process, if that's not too much of a long winded way to explain my creative process. But, you know, it's very much about connection, collaboration. And, you know, also a lot of gratitude of the process of the fact that I get to work in this space. And, you know, you sort of want to deliver something for people as well. And because it's a two way street, right, you want to create, so that people are getting to experience what you're delivering, as well. So you get inspired by the end product,

Roy Sharples: 12:14

Your points on activating the community and the importance of collaboration when exploring new ideas, and not to be afraid to continuously learn, collaborate, invite by cross pollination and sharing of knowledge across multiple domains by combining people's intellectual capital and know how, and I should navigate through this process. The Alchemy happens in the execution of the doing, and bringing together the diverse and different perspectives you accumulate along the way, and discovering radical stories that may seem or pick yet, when you curate them, and you land it with your audience, it ends up being exactly what they wanted, yet, they didn't know it until they actually experienced that.

Tanya Denning-Orman: 13:02

And I think a really important thing, and also where we've just hit 14 years, 14 and a half years, actually, since the indigenous channel, first launched in 2007. And I think license is a major part of who we are now, when we first started is like, Oh, we want a black football show. So we know we had a rugby league, some former footballers doing a panel on AFL Rugby League, and all we wanted a new service who, what, where, when, and he's a news presenter doing news, and here's a sports trainer, and here's the weather. But, you know, that was just reflecting and just saying, Look, we can we can do what you're doing. But what I'm really excited about were entering now is that license to actually be real and be who we are like, I work in an ecosystem of incredible filmmakers who, you know the answer, we know where were the results of 60,000 in more years of storytelling, and so how we can translate. And, you know, for instance, doing news in a different way that resonates with the white people. And you know, we've already been experiencing that with the way people consume the news saved through Tik Tok or Twitter or other platforms. Whereas 14 years ago, they weren't consuming their information that way. And now that we're really stable as an indigenous channel, and you know, you can see Australian media landscape changing. It's where I'm really excited about is, you know, they're coming on this journey. Now. They realize there's something with Indigenous storytelling and indigenous presenters and, you know, our space is being valued more, but what I'm really excited about is the fact that we can really think of storytelling in the way that you know, fathers and grandfathers and parents had told us and translate that for more people to get to experience. And that's what's really exciting in the space. I mean.

Roy Sharples: 15:07

Storytelling makes meaningful connections across history and time, uniting people by helping them make sense of themselves and the world. Insights spread noise from one generation to another, linking traditions, legends, myths, archetypes, culture, history and values, which unite communities and societies. Indigenous values, beliefs and practices have been oppressed in places like Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and the Americas for hundreds of years. And yet indigenous peoples knowledge of their ecosystems plays a vital role in protecting the environment, their resilience for combating Disaster Reduction scenarios and situations. Yet, thankfully, we are experiencing a revitalized appreciation and the reemergence of the real application of this knowledge and practices to support agro ecological conservation, natural ecosystems, sustainability management, and climate change adaptation and mitigation practices

Tanya Denning-Orman: 16:09

We, like with wild indigenous broadcasters globally as well, and we're all saying a similar thing to each other, that desire is growing like our fastest growing audience and non Indigenous people in Australia, which is really exciting. And we're maintaining obviously, what's really important for us is trust and respect of our core audience, which is Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander people. So we've kept our authenticity, but we're working with how people are looking for us, you know, off the back of the devastating 2019 bushfires under understanding, burning and understanding how we, you know, lived in this environment for, you know, millennia is being seen, our sciences are being looked at now, as once upon a time media, trivialized says, you know, hunters gatherers, or that we're not, you know, it was just by chance that you've kept going or something so not realizing the the knowledge and the science that has, you know, our governance, you know, our political systems, and realizing that it's, there is a lot more to us, that can help and, you know, help us heal as global citizens, heal environments, but also in a changing world where people are looking at who they are in this particular place, as well. So, and yeah, I really, I learned a lot about what I do in Australia through the sister channels globally, as well. So I look for that leadership as well in a different way. That never been an indigenous channel before. So when I'm in this position, obviously, I've been gifted or, you know, I've been, I'm in this as a guardian ship for a while, but being able to go to the CEO of AAPT. And in Canada, or to the NRK Sami the Assamese and talk to them about what they've done to the Mary's in New Zealand. It's been a, what's helped me in my leadership journey, and helped me immensely because I felt that I wasn't alone, was looking at the Global looking at who else is doing something similar, and what they could teach me and vice versa. So that global indigenous networks been very powerful for me,

Roy Sharples: 18:51

When you became a television executive some 14 years ago, you were one of the youngest television executives in Australia, which is a remarkable achievement, and one of a handful of Aboriginal women in a leadership role in media. How did you overcome these barriers and adversity? And also, what are the key skills needed to survive and thrive as a leader and the media industry?

Tanya Denning-Orman: 19:19

I really think my upbringing, my family and what I was surrounded by the strength of community and family, which has really grounded me and but I think the big part is resilience and having that you can say it's a, you get knocked down constantly, but being able to get back up and learn from that experience has helped me so every time I've made a mistake, for instance, I value that and what it teaches me to move forward and the fact is I just never gave up, you know, I grew up, were going to a bigger city was a huge feat to do, like, I grew up in a small town, and, you know, we go out bush for weekends and stuff like that. So we didn't, you know, go into, you know, metropolitan areas in any way. So even being in the sort of work environments have bought, it was always quite new to me. But I just was always passionate about stories, and you know, my grandfather, you know, the story kept getting bigger and bigger every time I told her, you know, I love, I always feel very privileged to be in this position. So I've never taken it for granted. And, you know, I guess sometimes I walk away from a meeting guys, they probably think I'm crazy. But, you know, I bring up my mom, and, you know, I, it's been really hard to because I'm like, 1000s, you know, 1000 kilometers away from where I grew up, I'm not in my community, even now. And you know, it's hard to not be able to just, you know, pop to mom's for a cup of tea or something like that. So, but it's the, what I love about the creative industry and the creative arts is, you know, there are so many people that are inspiring, that we work with, as well that, you know, as I mentioned earlier, and also the people that open them, themselves up to you, and that responsibility that you end up having, because they're sharing their story with you. So I've you know, but I have been that only woman at an all executive table, I have been the only Aboriginal woman at the whole executive table. And what helps me is actually talking to similar people in similar positions. And then you're not feeling like that imposter syndrome that um, but you know, I guess sometimes also being young at the time, like the youth, you you're think you're invincible, and you do think you can teach, and you do you know, my culture, that is what he did do get caught and taught by young ones, like our grandparents. I've got grannies that a little so they teaching me. So culturally, you do, like, yes, elders. You know, there's that respect, and you look for your elders, but you never lose sight of what the young teach you, and what, you know what they give you. So I think being young had its advantages as well. And I remember an era, we didn't even have a Google search engine or, you know, yeah, I grew up in a time where there was only one sane Australian one, ABC, one, SBS four channels, if you're lucky. So you were only as good as your last story as well. So it was hugely competitive. But I didn't know I found my difference, a real advantage. And the hardest part for me was just getting in the door in the first place. And so if you've got environments where people are only hiring, what they look like if they're only hiring themselves, and that was what we're, you know, Australian television was very much a, You know, for many, many years. So it's really opening up. And that's why I'm really passionate about programs and pathways, so that we don't lose the fact that diversity is, and having differences of opinions and differences of voices makes us healthier, and stronger. But um, yeah, it was bloody hard to get in the door in the first place. And then there's a degree of staying in the room. But for me, it's always been the hardest part is actually getting, you know, once the crack once the ceiling cracked a little bit, I was able to punch through it. And, you know, even if I'm doing a small story, or if I'm doing a massive presentation, every piece is important. And it's all part of the ecosystem that I love being a part of. So. Yeah, but it's not it hasn't been easy. But at the same time, you know, if I look back on it, there have been allies along the way. And that's what I try to pay forward in my position now, with a new generation coming behind me

Roy Sharples: 24:51

And that generation seem to be very socially conscious and aware, young kid on a very critical word, they're resilient. Since, and you clearly had that an abundance to stay the course, hardship, melancholy, and adversity, often inspire creativity. People who survive alienation, oppression, poverty, and other life challenges, realize that it fuels our genius when they can focus on it. This primal desire to stay the odds with extraordinary intellectual ability, mental toughness, grit, and creative productivity is what can fuel an insatiable drive for self actualization. And this in turn, inspires creativity. Tanya, as you reflect upon your career to date, what are your lessons learned in terms of the pitfalls to avoid, and the keys to success that you can share with existing and aspiring leaders in the media industry?

Tanya Denning-Orman: 25:50

The biggest lesson, I would say, is being grounded in self and having self awareness and self care. And if you're strong in yourself and who you are, then you can do do more. But if you're running crazy, trying to do too much, trying to, you know, the all consuming based of, you know, audiences and, you know, you can lose sight of the game. So for me, it's really important to own your spot and not be in the moment, it's important to always look back and reflect. And, of course, you need your guiding light of where you want to go to. But if you are not stable in this moment, today, you won't get there. So for me, you know, what I try to do with myself is have joy in today, and really, look at what today is going to bring me and that helps me then focus. So then, you know, once you're grounded, then you can have a look at this bigger picture. And then sometimes I think, Okay, how are we going to get there? And that's why it's important than to look back. Yeah, so for me, that's been my lesson. I know, I've been very much, you know, in a chat, you know, I've been an executive, we've got multi channels popping up, nude, you know, revenue challenges that you need to diversify revenue, you need to, you know, meet the demands you've audiences jumping, the less brand connected like they used to be. So how do you keep your business afloat, and keep relevance? And, you know, I think what's been really key to the success of NITV, is that we've maintained may sound basic, of course, you're an indigenous channel, of course, you say indigenous, but it could have easily sold off parts of, you know, bring in different sort of ways to generate revenue, where you leave your core business. So it was really important for us to always value that we are an indigenous channel, and that were unique in the marketplace. And what does that mean? And how do we need to be strong in culture? And how do we actually live and breathe our community, so that we're not just a content aggregator, because I think this is, you know, 14 years ago, where, you know, now you do have your content aggregators, you've got your Netflix's you've got your demand, you know, your AVCi views, or you can just have your content the way that you design it as a curator as a consumer now, but what we give is that authorship of indigenous, and that we can actually provide you a unique perspective in the world. So we're not just a media player, we're actually you know, we're, we're an organism that is a part of your community. So people love our brand, they connect with our brand. So that's been, I guess, a long way to say you know, being stable and who you are as a person but and who you work for, like culturally, being still in knowing that has really been my major lesson. I think,

Roy Sharples: 29:38

Expressing yourself through what you are, and feeling proud and secure about that. And being clear on what you are not and appreciating the differences. Be present, be in the moment, push forward for the greater good with true grit for the sake of your beliefs, your commitments and your contribution to others. Tanya tilting forward, what's your vision for the future of the media industry, and what do you see the role of creativity to be?

Tanya Denning-Orman: 30:08

I come from a culture is storytelling has been integral to survival. It's integral to know where you've come from. And it helps you to know where you're going. And it helps you understand the world you live in. So media, for me is a medium, it's a, it's a way to express it's a way to share, it's a way to inspire. So the future for me is ensuring we have that assess ability to every single human on the planet, so that we are truly you know, the global citizen. So, you know, there's challenges with, you know, geo blocking, and how people can access the information. But for me, I would really love a world where you could really access a lot more information and a world where the information is correct. And it's all inclusive, and it's not delivering, you know, I, to go back to that little girl in the 80s the power of media, the power of seeing what you can be, that changes people, you know, the power of media will never change, it can heal, it can, you know, help you with, you know, climate crisis, it can help you as a person, it can help you learn how to cook a great dinner, it's, you know, we're humans, and we like to connect and interact. So for me, I really want to see our, you know, diversity inclusion, I want to ensure that there's empowerment in storytelling, and it's never blocked off. And ultimately, I want to ensure that there's truth and that power, you know, media isn't used. You know, there's a, there's an old saying back in the day was the indigenous channel is bad public perception can lead to bad public policy, or bad you know, it can, the way media can influence the masses can really be dangerous in the wrong hands. So I really am idealistic. I believe in the power of media, and I believe that we need to look after it, we need to make sure it's governed effectively, and we need to ensure that it can do its job to inspire, to entertain, to educate and inform

Roy Sharples: 32:44

Stories are the oxygen for communication. Storytelling is a language that unites the world. It brings us together, it helps us understand our past and reach toward the future. embracing diversity and difference helps us understand each other and ourselves. Recognizing and respecting our individual differences in gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, age, physical abilities, social and economic status, religious and political beliefs, and other ideologies needs to be the norm accepted without question. When people feel included, they build meaningful social relationships have a stronger sense of belonging, and inspire creativity and innovation in themselves and others. The more you interact and collaborate with people from different cultural backgrounds, disciplines, knowledge, bases, industries, and geographies, the more you understand, respect and value them, and the more enriched and fulfilled your life experience will be. We all benefit from learning from others. Having a level playing field means a society open to everyone. It means a commitment from the very start of life to provide an environment that allows everyone to live a self determined life in which people are free to explore the opportunities created by an open to them. Do you want to learn more about how to create fun to use by unleashing your crazy power and consider getting "CREATIVITY

WITHOUT FRONTIERS: 34:28

How to make the invisible visible by liking the way into the future?" It's available in print digital audio on all the relevant good platforms. You have been listening to the Unknown Origins podcast. Please follow, subscribe and rate and review us. For more information go to unknownorigins.com. Thank you for listening.