Adrian Dutt on Music

Adrian Dutt is an illustrator, musician, and co-founder of the DIY record label 'Howling Owl.' Adrian manages the Bristol branch of Rough Trade and uses his time to continue pushing his creativity via Spectres, illustration, and various record label collaborations.

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Transcript

Roy Sharples: 0:06

Hello, I'm Roy Sharples, welcome to the unknown origins podcast. Why are you listening to this podcast? Are you seeking inspiration? an industry expert, looking for insights, or growing your career? I created the unknown origins podcast to provide access to insights and content from creators worldwide with inspirational conversations and storytelling, about art, architecture, design, entrepreneurship, fashion, film, music and pop culture. Adrian Dunn, as an illustrator, musician, and co founder of the DIY record label howling Adrian has been immersed in the creative world for over 20 years, or originally from the scenic coastal vistas of North Devon. He relocated to Bristol in 2011. Alongside his bandmates, and the wall of noise, architects specters. What followed was a decade of industry baking, Sonic reinvention, and pushing the artistic boundaries in the music industry. Now settled in Weston Super Mare, and managing the Bristol branch of Rough Trade records. Adrian uses his time to continue making his creativity via specters, and illustration, and various record label collaborations. Hello, and welcome, Adrian, when did you realize you are a creator? And then how did you end up gravitating towards being a musician.

Adrian Dutt: 1:43

It's kind of a similar story. So a lot of people were, you know, I grew up in a household where my dad was a sculptor, and had his own kind of workshop, which my mum worked in, and as kids myself and my brother would, you know, work in and help out on the holidays and such. And also, my dad was really into music. And the same with my older brother as well. So I kind of inherited that creative interest from them, because I was just surrounded by music and art all the time, it's kind of as cheesy as that sounds. Neither of them are musicians or anything like that, but just, you know, constantly listening to music and exposing me to new music as as a kind of, you know, kids all at the same time whilst watching, you know, my parents job is to, you know, create art, which is just, you know, I was constantly inspired by that. And I think that that just meant, there was no other real way for me to go, I just always assumed that I would go into some kind of creative industry. I didn't have the kind of nuance of kind of sculpture that my dad had, but I was able to draw, and they really encouraged me as a kid to kind of, to do that to draw as much as possible to, you know, use my imagination. And, and I guess that that creative world just goes hand in hand with music and the to develop together, you know, through kind of secondary school was, I just assumed I was going to go to art college. At the same time, I was really into music. And throughout my life that they've just gone, gone hand in hand together, I've never been able to separate the two and a lot of times people have kind of, you know, said our sooner or later you're gonna have to pick you know, one one route, do you become a musician? Or do you become an artist? And that's never really crossed my mind. I've never fought well, I have to pick one because they've just been a pair, which is really good. You know, so that that kind of constant exposure to to my dad's record collection. And my brother he was, you know, of the perfect age for the grunge Nirvana kind of seeing. So I was five years younger than him and listening to all this music coming from his rooms being like, well, what is this he had a guitar but he never played it. So just existed in house and it's just this kind of monolith that I always wanted to be able to play the guitar and be in one of these bands but never had the kind of outlet to do it didn't know how to didn't know who to ask. And, you know, it wasn't something at school that was really encouraged. It was more kind of being pushed down the artistic route and you know, go go to college and become a, you know, designer or an illustrator or whatever. At that time. There's going to be. So I think that's, you know, the real kind of grassroots inspiration. But as soon as I hit, you know, 1516, I kind of discovered subcultures and got really into skateboarding. And then that was a real eye opener for me in terms of discovering new music. Because there's all these bands on these skate videos that, you know, I'd never heard of before and hadn't been exposed to, on the radio, or, you know, didn't have enough money to be able to buy all these albums by different people. So watching all these skate videos with my friends, we would hear these new bands and songs and then have to, like, you know, track down, find out what they were, pause the credits at the end of the video to see who these bands were. And I think for me, that was a real turning point in my kind of musician, side of life, because that was when I realized, wow, you know, you can, all these people are doing their passion, you know, what, whatever it is, albeit, a sport, you know, skateboarding at the same time, you know, music is involved in that, and they get to curate that playlist. And you know, that those songs mean something to them. And, in turn, putting that into the world for everyone else to be exposed to and you know, that that's just really what it's basically like a music video, I guess, that always stuck with me and Joe, who's inspectors and runs hanging out with me, like, you know, we've got the same upbringing, basically. And that is just something that we shared and is synonymous with what we do. And, you know, yeah, so I think that's that's kind of like a kind of paint by numbers route of what inspired me.

Roy Sharples: 6:49

Bristol is the gateway to England's West Country. The UK is 10th largest city, and a renowned epicenter for creativity and innovation. Cary Grant, Banksy, Wallace and Gromit, massive attack, Portishead, to name but a few went into onto inspire generations of people through their craft, not forgetting the Bristol Old Vic theatre that spurred on many fine actors, including Daniel Day, Lewis, Adrian, how did Bristol as a space and community enable you to unleash your creativity,

Adrian Dutt: 7:25

You know, North Devon is an amazing place. But there, you get to a certain age and there's just not the opportunities to expand your creativity, you know, we were knocking about in different bands at that point, separate to each other, but producing like fanzines exhibitions and putting on our own gigs, you know, trying to bring bands down to that part of the country, because touring bands just don't come to North Devon, you know, they play the cities, they play Exeter, Plymouth in Bristol, and that's it. So for about, you know, three, three or four years, we were in different bands and having to go play shows, you know, throughout the country, and one thing that you have to do is or his drove through Bristol. So, you know, we kind of just life took a turn, and naturally brought us together where we had this shared interest and kind of vision of, of a band that we wanted to be in together. And to facilitate that, that move into Bristol was just kind of like a natural step. And we kind of went up to see a show, maybe in like November 2010, we went to watch the Twilight sides and eras, and as a Bristol band supporting them called the natural sort of these, like, 16 year old kids making this amazing kind of like Angular, just rhythmic music. And, you know, we kind of all looked at each other at that show. And we're like, well, we just got moved to Bristol, you know, we're going to befriend that band, because, you know, they were doing something that we love. And so that really was the final push for us. And we did we moved like two months after that show, we just kind of packed our lives up and all moved together in to separate places. And, and then, you know, just had to start from scratch pretty much and go out to gigs that, you know, we were hoping to meet people. And we did find this amazing collective of like minded people. And all these kind of young creatives that were in bands and had this shared vision. And it was just like, you know, serendipitous timing of, you know, we'd go to the show, and you meet these people, and then you go to another show with them, and you meet more people, and that really created this foundation for for specters bands, and then for how to now the record label and we started in 2011 because we thought, you know, we're surrounded by such creativity, and we have this opportunity to show the world that there's more to Bristol than, you know, the kind of trip hop legacy. There was, you know, everyone focuses on. So we Yeah, just push forward with that. And I think, you know, Bristol is still such a forward thinking city, in what it's doing and has so many amazing kind of pockets of different communities and different music scenes. But one thing that I don't really ever experienced in any other city is that, you know, there's no ego amongst anyone, everyone is kind of supporting each other, no matter what kind of, you know, music genre, or arts kind of route that they're doing. You just see people, other people's things, and it's such a kind of inspiring place to be and just being immersed in that world makes you want to be more creative and push your boundaries to really just see what you can do. Because there's such opportunities there. And I think, you know, there's no one saying no, and there's, there's so many people that are willing to support you, like, you know, amazing spaces to put gigs on and the world and the music world just just worked so well together. In Bristol, yeah, for us, it was such a natural progression and really kind of game changing point for us as as a band and as musician. And as artists and you know, just as, as human beings basically being exposed to all this amazing kind of energy and really inspiring music,

Roy Sharples: 11:39

You clearly apply the DIY sensibility, and what you do and how you do it. There's also an omnipresent theme that cuts through your approach about being experiential land. And your point on live artistic performance really rang true, and the importance of time, place and occasion as catalysts to inspire people to dream, make and do. For example, music venues, like the Cavern Club in Liverpool became an epicenter for mercy beat back in the 1960s, and the Troubadour in Los Angeles for folk music in the 1960s and 1970s, CBGB in New York City and the 100 club in London, for Punk in the 1970s. And also Wigan casino for Northern Soul in the 1970s. And more recently, the Hacienda nightclub, for us at house and rave music, front in the whole Manchester scene in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Anyway, the point being was that these venues became synonymous with the music they hosted. And like they became a sanctuary where music fashion and culture came together where like minded people could self identify and, and feel liberated, which no doubt is a key factor in your creative process in terms of how you get inspired, where ideas come from, and then how do you make the music itself on that, Adrian, how do you make the invisible visible by dreaming up ideas, developing them into concepts and then bringing them to actualization,

Adrian Dutt: 13:24

I think what he kind of touched on about going to shows and having that kind of experience is really feeds into, like, personally my creative process, and as a collective of specters, and having out our creative processes, because aspect is, as a bands, the whole point to what we do is to create a memory for people, so they come to the show, and we want them to leave, having, you know, had some kind of catharsis and being able to be completely, you know, sensory explosions of just, you know, the whole thing is kind of, you know, same as NBv placement with strangers, we, you use volume, and kind of space, to be able to, you know, really tap into people's emotions and drag them out of the, you know, safe zone. So, when we kind of look into write a song, we don't kind of traditionally sit down in a room and, you know, come to each other with riffs and things like that, you know, it blows my mind that people can actually write songs in that way or like they can be you know, walking along the street and have a song come into their heads. That's just not something that we've ever a been able to facilitate. For us. We have just always been sat in this dark space where we just make noise each other. And then slowly, this kind of like erosion of Sonic rubble kind of becomes a song. And you know that for us. We've been asked that question so many times for our kind of career, like, how do we write this? How do we write that, and we've never gotten an answer for it, because they just happen. They just happen is bizarre, and I can't ever put my finger on it. And I feel like a big kind of believer in, you know, everything happens for a reason. And we've met certain people and had certain experiences purely down to, you know, what, the route that we've taken, and with, with the songs and kind of creativity that we produce, it just seems to kind of come from nowhere. And I think it's all down to being able to push yourself and just be having fun and trust in your own kind of ability, because that, that is the kind of key, so you know, we'll be sat in a room for, you know, an hour, two hours, three hours. And essentially, if someone's listening to that is probably horrendous, because it's just just, you know, noise. And at a certain point, you know, we'll lassoo on to her core, a certain sound or someone with like, you know, thing, break, like, break or lead, capture, think, Okay, well, that is what we should use as a basis for something. Lots of songs that are just, you know, created from really analog, different kind of, like decayed sound waves, so, you know, it is down to like a metal ring on a, on a pedal, which is slightly undone, which is leading to the connection being shoddy, which then fractures the sound signal, and creates this disarmed this, you know, isn't a normal stand. And that's what, you know, we tap into, because that's more enjoyable to us. And that's what we want to put into, like, people's like spheres, for them to experience, you know, rather than just go down the route of playing chords, and, you know, writing a song, for us, writing a song is completely deconstructed ourselves, and then reconstructing it and rebuilding it. And we get so excited by finding new ways to do that. And it is, you know, I feel so privileged to be amongst these people that all have this shared kind of vision of what music should be, and what, you know, what, what is in trouble to us and in a space, and then having them come up to you and tell you what they experienced, you know, is it like, it's the loudest gig they've ever heard, but, you know, they just completely zoned out into this weird purgatory of, you know, thinking their own thoughts or hypnotized by the music that's going on. And you know, that that connectivity, you can't buy that, that's just, yeah, that's an experience. And that's so you know, integral to feeling good and being human. You know, that's, that's kind of, you can't fake it. And for us like to be able to put that into our creative process that is that that is what we're trying to hook on to make so I mean, yeah, we just, we just kind of completely deconstructs everything that we think we should be doing, and then start from scratch and rebuild it in the most long, roundabout way as possible. Sometimes,

Roy Sharples: 18:49

That is an experiential way of making music where the process starts off as chaotic through rapid experimentation of sound, which may include alternate tunings playing styles, and tonality of the instruments you're using, and then evolving it naturally, until it strikes an emotional connection. And then from that point, you then build on it to then form the song itself

Unknown: 19:18

is such a kind of it sounds like a convoluted way of going about writing a song, but I think just the way that we exist as a band, and we've never, you know, we've always known we're never going to be a massive stadium bands. And we were never doing it for that reason, we were purely making this music that we wanted to make. Because, you know, we'd come together to make it and you know, if one person heard it, or no one heard it or outcome for us, but you know, that that fed into what we wanted to how we were to be I saved as a band because as things picked up, and we got more successful and, and things went really well, for us, we had this platform and opportunity to be able to kind of, you know, subvert the norm and kind of challenge the industry. Yeah. And I think that, you know, for creative process, we always think as much about the artwork and the package and what an album or the song comes in, and what it means, as you know, as, as a part, as is everything we think of the whole kind of thing.

Roy Sharples: 20:36

What are the key skills needed to survive and thrive as a musician?

Adrian Dutt: 20:42

I think you just need to trust yourself. And challenge yourself constantly. Because what's the point in settling for something if you're not pushing yourself forward, and I think as a musician, it would be so easy to fall into the kind of frame of just paint by numbers, music and write a song, record a song, play a gig. And then do it all again, if you do another album, do the same thing again, until you get to a certain age, and then then what happens then? Yeah, you're too old to be in a band, I don't know, it was I mean, I'm almost 40 and still doing the same thing. And, you know, we have friends in bands that are, you know, huge, and they're our age. And, you know, they're still kind of touted as young bands. Yeah. I think that having that. Belief and energy when it comes to what you're doing, means that you can go on and be successful for as long as you want, and survive as a musician. Because, you know, no one's going to be given you a handout of money, no one's going to be given you a certain rule book of how to, you know, be a band and be successful, you have to, you have to kind of network collaborate, and, and, you know, really look out and see what's going on and not just be belligerent, and try and do something that someone's done the same thing a million times before, is, you know, what, ultimately, who's getting anything out of that?

Roy Sharples: 22:26

Yeah, it defeats the whole purpose of being a creator, and gracing the world with with art. If it means finding a formula that generates success once, then all you do is rinse and repeat it wrong. The same formula rarely works in succession. And to find the future, you need to constantly innovate by navigating to New Horizons. So rather than getting to safe too quickly, and the area you are most comfortable working in, that drives complacency and lazy thinking. And so constantly forcing yourself out of your comfort zones and routine to push into the unknown, which is why people actually end up doing something exciting, and breakthrough when it comes to music as an expression of yourself, right, and trying to kind of tap into your true true self. And you said a key word there around belief and kind of energy. And when you tap into that as being clear around who you are, and who you are not, and to appreciate those differences and, and to then express yourself through through music that really is coming authentically from yourself and whether or not anyone else likes it that secondary?

Adrian Dutt: 23:39

Yeah, definitely, you know, I think, what's the point in conforming to, you know, if you if you get it right, once, that's amazing, and, you know, it's so many people will then go on to just do the exact same thing again, you know, there's so many bands that will release an amazing album, but never, you know, never push themselves to change it. And I think for us, we had a really successful first records, and, you know, completely did change our lives, you know, if we were doing what we wanted to do, and this was amazing. And I think people expected us to continue on that path of doing the same thing again, but that wasn't really what we were enjoying, we had kind of been a band for five years at that point. So we had five years of building up to that album, and then all of a sudden it was released. And then, you know, you're you're part of, you're a cog in the music industry. And, you know, it's amazing, we'd tour and all over and you know, what a privilege and it would have been easy for us to kind of milk that and carry that on and know, you know, have that a safety net of writing a record that would tick all the boxes that people want to hear, but that wasn't what we wanted to do. So what we did is completely write a record You know, absolutely maligned some people. And, you know, they didn't expect it. Whereas some people really connected with it more so than the first album. Yeah. And that, that is what we were looking for, you know, that's, that's the people that we want to connect with. Because they're, they understand the process, they're understanding what's happening in a song, because deep down, they're all pop songs. But they're just completely buried on the dissonance. And you know, that there's people that would talk to us and say, they have these reactions to your songs, and, you know, the feelings and the emotions that they bring up. And you know, that's just getting that feedback is so amazing. And yeah, inspires you as a creative person to keep pushing it, then you know, that the next record, you can change it again. And it doesn't matter. Because if you lose some people, you lose some people that ultimately gain some people, and you keep your integrity. And I think that that's such a massive thing. For us as to, we've always maintained our integrity, we've been uncompromising in so many ways, and you know, had so much thrown at us. But we've always had our own, you know, belief in what we're doing, it doesn't really matter that you know, what people think.

Roy Sharples: 26:18

Your commitment to making sacrifices, your mental toughness, your persistence, and your independence, to follow your own instincts to create an innovate is admirable. And besides, nothing is worth doing in life that involves ordinariness and repetition.

Adrian Dutt: 26:36

Yeah, the best, the best way to kind of look at look at kind of the creative process. And yeah, for us definitely is a way of way of existing and maintaining that world to continue by just being innovative, and looking at what we could do next.

Roy Sharples: 26:59

Adrian, what is your key learnings to date based on the pitfalls to avoid, and the keys to success that you could share with existing but also aspiring musicians?

Adrian Dutt: 27:11

Well, I think it's important to kind of look at what's going on, around you and, and be inspired by record labels and other bands and see what they're doing. And you know, those you'll learn lessons just from from that alone, because you'll see how bands exist. And in this kind of modern, day and age, where we're bombarded by visual imagery and audio, you know, social media and everything, it's easy to get lost amongst it all. So, you know, I think it's really important to, to just like, notice, who's doing it right, and what the reasons are, and how that works for them. I think, you know, we've had a few pitfalls. And, you know, a lot of the negatives that have come out of our career are actually more positives for us, because it meant that we were staying true to ourselves, you know, if that meant being blacklisted from radio stations, or whatever, you know, then that was just a byproduct of it, we were kind of sticking to our guns and, you know, challenging the norm. And I think it's easy to, to kind of have that silver spoon of entitlement and just assume that because you're a band, and you're making music, that people will listen to you. But that's not the case, you know, there isn't, there isn't that kind of conveyor belt of money and opportunities that are going to come come your way so, you know, just networking and get yourself out there. And yeah, trust yourself. And I think that those are the keys to success, really believe in what you're doing and, and other people will believe in it too. You know, that's, that's the kind of maybe a mantra of sorts, certainly, for us as a bands just never, never really backed down on your beliefs. And just because the industry is saying something's wrong doesn't always mean that's the case. You know, we as a band we shouldn't really exist in the world we exist in and be getting to the kind of places that we get to but I think that you know, people hold on to the creativity and everything that surrounds the band is more just music is fanzines, since all the artwork and the visuals and our kind of manifesto and you know, the kind of different facets of the industry that we've challenged in the past and it's important to speak up for yourself and speak up for for others around you that might not have that voice or have the kind of Confidence to, you know, say that things are wrong or they, you know, not being treated as they should be, you know. So, yeah, I think keys to success just, you know, you're going to learn a lot of things the hard way. But that's that's the kind of more make you stronger? Certainly just yeah, that's I think that's where one getting

Roy Sharples: 30:29

A fundamental role of the artist is to take a stand against oppressive forces, without fear of retaliation by representing the beliefs and communities, they champion to provide a voice of reason and hope. Tilting forward, Adrian, what's your vision for the future of music and the role of creativity?

Adrian Dutt: 30:53

The music industry is, you know, struggling own under its own weight, you know, the massive kind of snap back to streaming and, you know, rights for musicians and fair pay and things like that are so important at that, and the kind of massive issues with vinyl pressing at the moment. I personally believe that the DIY kind of infrastructures that resuscitated the kind of alternative and counterculture scenes in the 90s are going to really resurface. But you know, it's the next generation now. So all those kind of idea why labels, tape labels, small kind of networks of like minded individuals are going to be the kind of lifeblood and the veins of the industry, because it's just capitulated under its own weight, you know, so, I work in, in a record shop. So I see, and I have done for the past 20 years, in various independent record shops, so I've seen the kind of divine revival firsthand, and I've seen it where it is now. And it, it feels like it's not sustainable. It just feels like it's, it's a bubble, it's about to burst in a really bad way. Because vinyl so expensive for people to buy, it's, you know, nigh on impossible to get anything pressed in under nine months at the moment. And ultimately, that's going to kind of create a struggle, and maybe the major labels are going to start to, you know, disappear again, as they did in the 90s. And that's when all these amazing networks, you know, reminiscent of like discord and free one G and, you know, subpop are all gonna, you know, appear, and there's already so many amazing little labels in Bristol that I've seen pop up recently, and I just feel happy in the knowledge that it's safe in their hands, because that the music's never going to stop coming. You know, just because no one can get their record pressed, people are already thinking outside the box and creating more fanzines and, and tapes and chatting about music in a different way. And, you know, Bandcamp is obviously an alternative to Spotify. And, and that is helping in a massive way. So I think that's, that's my kind of vision for the next five years or so I think we're just going to see a massive rise and DIY labeled since tape labels and creative musicians that are also visual artists, and they're all, you know, putting music out in in ways that aren't traditional, and exciting. And, you know, just will just keep people's spirit alive. And I really hope that that happens, to be honest, because, you know, it's kind of scary to think that a new band can't get their records on the shelves or on their Bandcamp for between nine and 12 months, because they have to wait in this huge queue because major labels have kind of realized that, you know, they can shift hundreds of 1000s of copies of albums that have already been pressed a fair few times. And yeah, definitely. I mean, it's positive. You know, definitely that, that, you know, people are still aesthetically buying physical music. But I think, you know, just need to realign it a little and kind of take a look at what was happening with all and just see what can be done to, to change that. And I think you know, it's going to be these new young creatives and people that are looking up to labels from the last 10 years and just saying, Okay, this is what what we need to do now, and this is how we take it forward.

Roy Sharples: 34:54

Excellent, Adrian! History tells us that in times of adversity, like Coming through a pandemic, or recession, war, Brexit, the Phoenix is right to rise from the ashes. The point is, it is the time that tends to embrace new ways of doing things that provide solutions to problems, and as a result, overturns the status quo. And music is one of the more influential art forms and communication vehicles for mirroring modern society at a point in time, to voice hope and inspire change upon a generation. Do you want to learn more about how to create by frontiers by unleashing your creative power? Then consider getting CREATIVITY WITHOUT FRONTIERS? How to make the invisible visible by liking the way into the future. It's available in print, digital and audio on all relevant book platforms. You have been listening to the Unknown Origins podcast. Please follow subscribe, rate and review us for more information on unknownorigins.com. Thank you for listening.