Peter Hinssen on Business Innovation

Peter Hinssen is a serial entrepreneur, advisor, keynote speaker, and author. Peter is one of the most sought-after thought leaders on radical innovation, leadership, and the impact of all things digital on society and business. He lectures at various business schools such as the London Business School (UK) and MIT in Boston. Peter has founded nexxworks to help organizations become fluid, innovate and thrive in 'The Day After Tomorrow.'

Photo of Peter Hinssen @ Lies Willaert.

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Transcript

Roy Sharples: 0:06

Hello, I'm Roy Sharples, welcome to the unknown origins podcast. Why are you listening to this podcast? Are you seeking inspiration? an industry expert, looking for insights, or growing your career, I created the unknown origins podcast to provide access to insights and content from creators worldwide with inspirational conversations and storytelling, about art, architecture, design, entrepreneurship, fashion, film, music, and pop culture. Peter Henson is a serial entrepreneur, advisor, keynote speaker, and author. Peter is one of the more sought after thought leaders on radical innovation, leadership, on the impact of all things digital on society, and business. He lectures at various business schools, such as the London Business School, and MIT in Boston, Peter has founded networks to help organizations become fluid, innovate and thrive in the day after tomorrow. Hello, and welcome, Peter. So what inspired and attracted you to the innovation space in the first place?

Peter Hinssen: 1:23

Let me maybe dive into a little bit of my background first. I'm I'm an engineer, by training, I'm a technologist. But as you know, from a very early age on, I was absolutely fascinated by technology, what technology could do to make a better world and I wanted to make a mark, I wanted to do something that, I think was a good indication of the potential of how technology could actually build a better world. I mean, in other words, I'm a nerd, let me put it that way. I'm an I'm an absolute, bonafide, 100%, nerd. And growing up, I was fascinated by the world of science fiction, for example, where I could see how technology could really make the difference between a utopian or dystopian society. And that's what I wanted to do for, you know, most of my life. But then I got into, you know, the studying part, I got a degree in computer science. And one of the things that was fascinating is my parents had a subscription to Time Magazine. And I'll never forget this. And I think it was an article in Time magazine that was, you know, in, in my parents house when I was there during one summer. And it had an interview on the decline of General Motors. And I was browsing through that article, and they had interviewed all sorts of people. And one of the people they interviewed was an engineer working at General Motors his entire life. And they actually took his quote, and made it into a headline into the newspaper. And he said, I'm just completely, you know, burned out in my job, because I'm in charge of door handles. And he said, How would you like to design door handles for the rest of your life. And I still vividly remember actually reading that, and thinking, Oh, my God, I don't want to actually do that for the rest of my life. And for me, it's absolutely fascinating to you know, see that as maybe a turning point in the way that I thought about this, or the way that I started thinking about what I wanted to do in life. And I said, I don't want to have a life where I just, you know, working for a corporate and, you know, thinking about my retirement, you know, all of my career, I want to be out there and do something and have an impact. And I think that led me to a very entrepreneurial life after I graduated, I only work in a large corporate for 18 months. And then I started my own company, I started one of the first internet agencies in Europe, grew that to a few 100 people sold it to a big corporate, and then started another startup and then another one. And I really love this idea of starting from scratch, having no idea what to do, where you have to apply technology and innovation and a hell of a lot of passion and guts to try and do something that nobody has ever done before. And to be very honest, Roy, I think that was such an addictive lifestyle that I think it spoiled me for life. There is no way I was ever going to be able to go back to a more moles in terms of a career. And I think that entrepreneurial lifestyle where I had the opportunity to really do something extremely creative and extremely innovative, but also having the thrills of a roller coaster ride where you have extreme highs, but also terrible loads. I think that is something that I am just absolutely grateful that I had a chance to taste that in life, that I had a chance to enjoy that. And I would hope that anyone who has an opportunity can actually partake in that as well, because I think it's one of the best things that ever happened to me. So I am eternally grateful that my parents had Time Magazine, and that I had a chance to read the articles where I had the fundamental belief that I didn't want to design door handles for the rest of my life.

Roy Sharples: 5:50

You are a master storyteller. And stories are the oxygen for communication. Storytelling is a language that unites the world. It brings us together, it helps us understand our past and reach the future. A well told story engages the mind, heart and soul. And what I've learned is that people who rise to the summit of their game are magical communicators, because they have a knack for winning the hearts and minds of people. You've been a serial entrepreneur, you've documented that you've published that and multiple books. What how would you describe your creative process, Peter, in terms of how do you make the invisible visible by dreaming up ideas, developing them into concepts, and then bringing them to actualization?

Peter Hinssen: 6:41

Well, there's two elements, I think to that one, when you mentioned the importance of communication, I think that's absolutely true. We live in a society where that is become, I think, the very core elements of being able to make progress. Yeah, of course, throughout history, that has always been the case. But I think now even more so with such an overload of information that is available, separating, I think, you know, the signal from the noise. And yeah, being able to rise above the noise is even more important than ever before. Personally, that drive of communication is something that probably started early in life. And but I remember that when I was just starting out in my very first startup, I didn't have an audience. I didn't have any visibility, I didn't have any track record. And I was thinking to myself, how am I going to do this? Because now doing a startup is a more normal way of actually maybe living out your your passion and your dreams? When I did that, you know, back in the last century in the 1990s, that was still relatively rare. I mean, there were a few startups that were highly visible, but it was not most people would take a normal career path to get it done. Right. So when you were starting out in when I was starting out in my first startup, I thought, How am I going to do this because we were building concepts that we were competing with some of the big players out there, the the Oracles or the saps and I thought the only way I'm going to be able to do that is if I can actually get as much attention to my startup as I possibly can. So I made sure that I got invited on stage that I was able to do presentations at conferences. And I quickly learned that if I would only talk about just the facts, then that was relatively boring. But if I could get people excited about the journey about if I could build that narrative in something that really touched people, and they felt my passion through my story, that was an incredible way to actually get visibility, not just for me, but for my company and the products that I was selling. So I, I now spend a lot of my time, you know, talking to companies all around the world about what innovation or leadership or, you know, technology could actually do to help them, you know, build a better version of themselves. But the very root of that was for me trying to survive as a startup. And I didn't have a fancy marketing budget, I didn't even have a marketing department. And the only way I could get visibility is if I would create the visibility myself. And I think this is something where learning how to tell a story is something that I didn't have in my education. If you're an engineer, that's not a big part of how you know you're trained. But it was something that I learned to do and I learned to love that. And I think it got me interested in finding out how to tell a story. Now, I think The big shift for me to maybe formalize that was when I said at a certain moment, I need to, I need to find a way not just to be on a stage and talk about what I do. But I also want to find a way to cement that to put that into a book or a writing. The actual story, Roy is that I was doing a lecture I'll never forget it, it was in Phoenix, Arizona. And it was a big technology event. And there were some really, really big speakers out there who had written amazing books. And, and I remember, you know, there was a big audience. And just before I get onstage, the MC turns to me and says, Okay, what's the title of your book? And I said, I don't I don't have a book. And he said, you don't have a book. And I felt so terrible at that moment that I just made a resolution right there. I'm going to write the book. So I decided to say, Okay, what if I, how can I actually take some of the things that I feel very passionate about, and try and build that into something which is more scalable, because I can't be on the stage, you know, talking about this every single day. And when I wrote my first book, that was a terrible, terrible disappointment, because I wanted to probably make it too, too academic or too theoretical, it was also way too big and too thick. And I remember my wife is a veterinarian who have a very, very, down to earth sense of humor. And I remember, finally, my book was out, and a rush home. And I give my wife the first copy of the very first book that came off the printing press. And she takes it and she is Oh, my God, that's so heavy, it weighs like a dead dog. And I remember them all thinking, probably made a mistake there. And I did my first book was a terrible disaster, because I tried to copy what I thought was necessary in the world of academia to be important. But I didn't have a chance to really capture that storytelling into you know, what I wanted to have in the book. I started teaching at that moment at London Business School. Many of the people that were in my class were very senior executives. And I remember giving them the Book and seeing that it didn't resonate with them. And then I rewrote the book with two things in mind. One is what is my true story? What is the narrative that I want to get across? And what is the passion that I have? And two, I was constantly thinking of my audience. And those would be then at that moment, senior executives and I rewrote that first book into my second book, which was called the new normal, where I now refer to it as my first book, because I really want to forget about the dead dog thing. But the new normal was a way to say, Okay, can I actually use very, very simple language to make people are as excited about these things as I am. And in my world, that isn't easy. Because Roy, you've been in the technology business yourself for a long time. It's incredible how many amazing stories we have in the world of technology, and how poorly we actually tell it. There are so many wonderful, amazing engineers, who actually talk about the most boring things in the world where actually, they could be telling the amazing story of what they actually do. And I think that got me excited to say, can I take the wonderful landscape of technology at large, and start to build compelling stories that would reach more than just the nerds out there, but that people could actually get excited about the enormous potential of technology. And going back to my childhood, I watched so many sci fi movies, I read so many sci fi books when I was a kid, but 99% of them were dystopian, I mean, they were about all the horrible things that could happen as a result of technology that goes absolutely wrong. And they wanted to build a utopian version, I wanted to build an exciting version, I want to build a passionate version of what technology could actually do. For me, that creative process is something that and that gets me in trouble every single time is I pick up signals. I am probably a better listener than I am a writer. But I love to when I do an engagement with a customer. When I work with a company, I don't want to just deliver my message. I want to understand what makes them tick. I think that passionate curiosity is maybe the most important element that fuels that creative process. I want to understand what happens I want to understand, you know why they do the things that they do, what drives them, and picking up those signals is often a process that slowly you start to see patterns, you start to see things that make sense where you can start to connect the dots. And that is a process that often takes a while. And then I start to think about how can I tell a story around that, I typically start to try out some things when I pick up some patterns, and I try and put that in front of an audience. And once that is really finished, at that moment, I think I now feel comfortable enough to then put that into writing. So it's listening. It's connecting the dots, it's, you know, finding experiments with audiences to see what resonates. And when it's actually crystal, then I tried to put that into into writing. But that writing part is really the last 3% of a journey that might take two or three years. The biggest problem, then Roy, is that when I finish a book, then has to go through editing and, you know, yeah, the printing, and by the time it's out, it's another six 812 months down the road. And by the time that I finally get the book, I think, wow, that's my old story. And then of course, my publisher expects me to do a grand tour and talk about that for the next 24 months. And for me, it's actually the end of a cycle. Yeah. Which is interesting, because I really feel that that moment, you know, what, it's out there. And if if, if there's an audience that finds this interesting, they will have a chance to, you know, to, to, to indulge, and to sample and to savor that. But for me, the moment that I have the book in my hands, I really want to close that chapter and move on to the next.

Roy Sharples: 16:48

That's a fascinating process, you went through that. And it was a few things that really resonated that were turning points for you within that process. Peter, one was, when you started off your your first book, and you thought in your head, you had to adopt a certain model or structure or way that it should be done. And you you crafted it from that perspective. And then you realize that it was underwhelming for you to kind of go through that through that and do it that way, and it didn't work out. But when you then tapped into your own voice, and then you were able to manifest and express that way. That's when the greatness happened, right. And it became second nature for you. And that's a great learning for people out there is to really believe in yourself, believe in your ideas and follow your own instincts, right, rather than feel that you have to adapt to like a model. Because if you look at all the great people throughout time, it's you know, if you follow the flock, you're never going to get farther than the flock and all the greats have always they don't follow a structure because they create their own. And that's what you can like, did that. And then when you found that voice, Peter, it sounded like, all these other things are influenced and inspired you around pop culture around your youth, dystopian sci fi books and stuff like that inspired you. And you manifested that in a way where you, you actually did the opposite your point around utopian futures, and that your learnings along the way, was going to be a catalyst for for publishing your work in that way.

Peter Hinssen: 18:17

Yeah, and I think to the point of finding your voice, but also having, I think, the guts to try and get that voice out there. And that's not an easy thing. Because once there's a certain format, or a certain way of doing things, it's always easier to try and follow that. But I think that is something where at a certain moment, you're gonna have to say, You know what, I think there is another way, and I feel that there's an opportunity to tell my story, the way that I want to tell it. And I'll give you a very practical example of that. I'm a very visual person. And I now know that you are as well, Roy, I mean, this is something that we share. It's a passion for finding an image that really, really tells a story. And I remember, you know, when I was starting out 25 years ago, I mean, we saw the emergence of PowerPoint, and and every conference became a PowerPoint show. No. And there was this idea that the rule of thumb was, is that one slide is two to three minutes. You remember that? Yeah, I mean, he was. And of course, we have seen way too many terrible PowerPoint slides with bullets after bullets, where people would just read out, you know, what everybody could see on the slide. It was terrible. And I started to really figure out that there must be a different way so I started to use a lot of visuals. Yeah. i We all remember those famous Steve Jobs presentations where you put just one word on a really big slide and that was like wow, That was a game changer in the way that we started to use these, you know, mechanisms to be able to tell our narrative and get the story across, I started using visuals a lot. And today I'm at a point where if I do a 30 minute presentation, that could be online or webinar, or even in real life, I'm probably going to use about 300 images just to support that 30 minutes. That is an alarming rate. But it's about figuring out there is a story in your head. But there's also a visual background, that is more than just support, I think it's really part of the story that I want to tell. And then became something that, you know, I would remember, you know, being invited to give a presentation at a conference, they will say, oh, please send us your PowerPoint, and it was sent over, I don't know, 150 slides, and they would get on the phone and say, You can't do that. And we only have 25 minutes, I say, I know that that's what I do. And it was really starting to change. And I think we are such visual animals as as human beings, that we are, you know, I think obsessed with this idea of how the visual language is is so intrinsic to what we are as, as, as individuals or society. And we're still learning how to tell stories that way. I mean, I remember when our kids were younger, I would say, Oh, we you have to watch these classics. I mean, you know, there are some Westerns out there that you have to see the good, the bad, you have to see this. And I started to see that I love these, you know, movies when I was a kid, but my children thought there was something wrong that they thought it was on pause because it was so slow. So the rate of change on how we actually do that visual storytelling has picked up as well. And that's something that I took as a metaphor as a mechanism to try and get those stories across. And you know, how I work really, I mean, the visual element is extremely important in what I do. But having the guts to stand up to a conference organizer, who is freaked out by the fact that you have 120 visuals, instead of bullets on a PowerPoint is also having that guts to step out of a traditional way of thinking in a traditional mold. So I think it's not just the voice. It's also how you're going to get that across. And I think that's a big part of figuring out who you are, and what makes you unique,

Roy Sharples: 22:49

Creative leaders have confidence and their ideas, and never give up on bringing them to fruition. It means Leading Without Frontiers by seeing around the corners, and fearlessly navigating into the future. What are the key skills needed to survive and thrive as a business innovator?

Peter Hinssen: 23:09

Well, this is something where I've had a big shift in my life. As I said, I did startups, you know, yeah, in most of the early part of my career, and I love that, because starting from scratch, and then building something and see it grow. It's it's really, it's, it's like children, really, I mean, they're all different. And, and they go through phases. I mean, a startup of three people is different than a startup of 15 people is different than 49 is different than more than 100. And you you see them growing from childhood to, you know, the horrors of puberty. And then it's wonderful to observe that 10 years ago, I said, I've had enough. I mean, I know how to do that. I know what I'm going to expect when I start from scratch and try and build something. But I became fascinated by the other side, I became fascinated by how traditional organizations could reinvent themselves. I started became obsessed with how do big corporations actually do that? And it's because it was a world that I didn't know it was because I wanted to understand, if you are General Motors or General Electric, can you actually reinvent yourself? So instead of invention, I started becoming obsessed with reinvention. And I had a chance to, you know, be invited by some of those companies and see how they actually were trying to do that. I mean, Roy, you were you were part of Microsoft for a long time. Microsoft is a great example of what I call a Phoenix, a company that is capable of reinventing itself. But I started to realize that those are great rare animals. And at a certain moment, I felt like Richard Attenborough trying to find the rarest of beasts out there, which were traditional companies capable of reinventing itself, because Economic History is littered with companies that are actually incapable of doing that. We all know the Nokia stories and the Kodak stories, and I became obsessed with companies that were capable of doing that. So when you ask that question of how can you how can you reinvent, how can you thrive on these changes and be open minded? I think that has been the big obsession that I've had in the last decade to try and figure that out. And I wish I could tell you there's a magical recipe, there isn't there isn't a magical way of organizing that. And I think that's maybe my number one conclusion, you can't just think that there's a magical Harvard Business Review article where you implement seven steps and get it done. No, this is this is tailor made. This is unique, it's going to be different for Microsoft than it was for Disney. It's going to be different for Disney than it is for Walmart. And, and, but what are some of the things that I've picked up? One is an insatiable curiosity for what is next. And, and, and at the same time, an open mindedness to be able to think what you could do with that. Let me give you one example, one of my favorite companies that I've observed over the last, you know, couple of years, is actually a European company called Ms. The French luxury. Yeah, yeah. This is a company that I had a chance to observe quite, you know, from close in the recent period. And I love the company. It's, it's a wonderful story. It's it's 182 years old company, which is relatively old, you know, by by company standards. I mean, we're used to startups and scale ups, but even Google's only 22 years old. So 182 years, this is now significant. And what I find fascinating is the origin story of this company is they started 182 years ago by making saddles in Paris. And this was the founder, you know, Aramis, who actually had the idea to create a luxury workshop to build saddles for the elite nobility in Paris, brilliant idea, business took off like a rocket. He hired craftsmen, and he became the number one saddle maker in Paris. His son inherited the company and said, Okay, what are we going to do? I mean, my dad started this company making saddles. You know, when I'll scale the company, that's a really good idea. So he actually took Ms from the luxury saddle maker in Paris, to become the luxury saddle maker for Europe. So instead of catering for the nobility that live, you know, in Fontainebleau or Versailles, he would do that for nobility in Milan, or in Berlin. Great idea. And then the grandson and I love this story. actually went on a tour to the United States in the 19, late 19, teens and early 1920s and wanted to observe the New World. And he saw two things. One, he saw his first automobile. Now, he looked at the automobile, and immediately realized that maybe horses were not the future. Okay. But that is fascinating. You're the grandson of you know, you're going to inherit a company that is the number one saddle maker in Europe. And you go to us and you see your first automobile, you realize shit horses, not the future. And the second thing you're going to love this, Roy, is he saw an revolutionary invention that will change our lives forever, that we now take for granted because we think it's just normal. But in those days, it was highly revolutionary. It was the zipper. He saw the zipper for the very first time. And by the time he got back to Paris, he had the exclusive rights to use the zipper on the European territory. Now imagine this royal, you are the grandson of the founder. You come back from your visit to the Americans, you get into the workshop where everybody is busy making saddles and you say, Wow, forget about the horses, you know, no more saddles. We're gonna focus on automobiles and travel and that's when they started making scarves and bags. And by the way, zip, do you see the zipper that's gonna change our lives? I love that story. And I became fascinated because Atomists has been constantly innovating, while they're still very close to their artisanal way of making things. Yeah, I mean, they are a huge global company. But they still have the workshops with artisans in France, but being able to see what I call the day after tomorrow, but then act upon it, I think that is something which is the real trick to really thrive and innovate. And I always challenge people. I mean, you know, if you are really good at what you're doing, then the number one reflex that you have is to keep doing what you're already doing, because that's your comfort zone. But I believe that we're now getting into a world which is moving so quickly and advancing so rapidly, that we have to be constantly open minded for those new ideas and radically new ways of thinking about things, what I call the day after tomorrow, and not just be aware, but have the capacity to act upon that. And I think if you want my recipe for thriving in that situation, it's that open minded, and then act. And when you look at, for example, a go back to Microsoft, when the new CEO came in such an Adela. I mean, at that moment, he said, You know what, we're gonna stop ignoring that companies like Apple and Amazon are there. And if we're not going to make the transition to the cloud, we're just not going to exist anymore. Yeah. And I think it wasn't a problem with engineers. It wasn't a problem with technology. I mean, I think somebody said, there's probably there were probably a Google's inside of the r&d department and Microsoft, but they were just not getting out there anymore. And I think having that audacity and guts to observe the day after tomorrow, and then act upon the day after tomorrow, is probably the number one recipe to actually be able to, to get out of that mold and to reinvent yourself.

Roy Sharples: 31:49

Spot on Peter! Why? In general, people can be shiftless and self gratifying, and as a result, the future will leave them behind. This is because they can self destruct through access and become victims of their own success by cultivating destructive habits and complacency. So avoid at all costs, falling asleep at the wheel, getting permanently drunk on your own Kool Aid surrounding yourself with B and C players, and getting lazy and bloated, where you can't see the wood from the trees and all the beasts of prey and making ego based decisions. Like you indicate Peter, they are the Deadly Sins of organizations. As you reflect upon your career to date, Peter, what are your lessons learned in terms of the pitfalls to avoid, and the keys to success that you can share with aspiring business innovators?

Peter Hinssen: 32:44

Not just reflecting on myself, but I think I've had the pleasure to, in the last 10 years also be very close to a lot of startups and and have a chance to, to contribute or to invest or to take part in some startup activities. I mean, I don't have the stamina, I think or the I think the I mean, if you're 22, then pulling a few all nighters to get something done is easy. If you're 52, like myself, then it's not that easy anymore. I mean, sometimes I fall asleep in front of the television at 10 o'clock in the evening. So it's a different it's a different context. But I think what I've observed is, is I think, a couple of things. One is I fundamentally believe that when I talked about that passionate curiosity, I think that should be the driving force. When I see a startup, and and I have a chance to talk to the team, and I see that their main driver is to become rich. I mean, it's, it's, I almost immediately say no, because I don't think that should be your driver. But if I see people that are really passionate about solving a problem, passionate about following their dreams, or even their guts, I think that is what I find ultimately, more important. The second characteristic would be that open mindedness. I've even seen with technology startups that have great ideas, but 234 years down the line, they're still stuck to what they thought was right, you know, three, four years ago, right. And being relentlessly open minded, I think would be the second characteristic that I think is truly important. The third is this idea of resilience, that idea of forceful resilience, which I think is crucial. Because you're going to have ups and downs, you're going to have difficult moments and the capability to pick up the pieces, reinvent yourself, and I think that focus on resilience, I think is is absolutely one of the most important elements that are there. And then I think the fourth element would be that that idea of creativity vigorously creative. So those would be four things that I would single out. And the problem with that boy is that that's not something that you're taught. That's not something which they teach in high school, or in college, or even in a business school. Those are things that are often maybe more important on what you did as a kid and your childhood. If you're in the boy scouts or not, or you know, if you were in maybe some form of sports that you were competing in, that probably gave you more capability to sharpen those opportunities. If you're playing music, for example, or you were involved in arts, that probably gave you more opportunity to sharpen those skills than the traditional educational element that we've we've all enjoyed. And I think that's, I think something that is now becoming extremely apparent. I mean, when you look at great leaders, whether that's for traditional companies, or Phoenix's or startups or unicorns, or whatever, but great leaders, you know, have a capacity to take those elements and to build that into something which, you know, has a form of following I mean, people who take those elements and show leadership where people say, Yeah, I want to get behind that I want to be part of that. I want to engage in that. I think that's something which maybe is one of the big questions, I still have, is there a way to get more of those skills out there? I certainly don't think we're going to be able to do that with the education system that we have. You know, today. I mean, most companies that I visited most countries that I visited most geographies around the world, the education system has become the slowest moving part in society. And I think if we're not going to be able to fix that, then I think it's going to be difficult to scale up those capabilities that we drastically need to focus more on innovation.

Roy Sharples: 37:15

Education is the key to success. Yet we do not educate how we learn. We live in the 21st century. But our education systems were designed to meet the bygone needs of the Victorian industrial age, where recall was valued over imagination. We have an education system that tends to steer children away from the subjects they like instead of mandating a teaching model based on ease of administration and replicability. Instead of embracing creativity, and flexible, unstructured learning, early specialization, teaching to test and micromanagement delivers us a model that destroys free thought and crushes, innovation, diversity and choice are marginalized, and a one size fits all system. And the new order should be a modern education system that instills creativity, as a core discipline at the grassroots, and is nurtured throughout the education system, which recognizes intelligence as multifaceted and embracing emotional and social intelligence, critical thinking and practical problem solving, and integrates science, arts and humanities as equal parts of the learning jigsaw. I was involved in the startup ecosystem in the US, and that involved working with a lot of the the major colleges and I remember speaking to a professor for one from one of the key universities who, you know, I was deliberately being provocative when I met with him. And when I went into the lecture theatre, I said to him, Well, you know, nothing has changed at all, in terms of how education is delivered and experienced from when I was, you know, he said, Yeah, you're absolutely right, he said, but what's even more worrying, now is, he said that all of his students are exceptional at recall, in terms of memorizing everything that he he lectures them on, and what the textbook says. But what they don't do, they don't truly learn what they're being educated. And so when it comes to applying to practical problem solving to real life problems, but also creativity, there's nobody at home, you know, and I thought, wow, you know, that's just them as the present.

Peter Hinssen: 39:32

I fully agree. I fully agree. There's a there's a painting that I really love. And I don't know if you're familiar with Magritte, the famous Belgian surrealist painters, yes. And if any Magritte is it's become almost an icon of Belgium and honestly, I live in Belgium. You have to experience Belgium for a while to realize why we have so many surreal painters, Rene Magritte certainly was one of the biggest ones. And there's a wonderful painting there called like clairvoyance. And what you see is an artist that is, you know, painting a painting of a bird. But he's observing the model, which is actually the egg. Right? So he's looking, he's staring at the egg. And he's imagining the bird that he's painted. And I love that as a metaphor, because that's what we have to teach. And I think if you would ask young kids, what could come out of the egg, you know, they would have, you know, all sorts of ideas from dragons to birds to magical creatures. But after a big part of our education, we would just take the egg and find a way to draw the perfect egg. But we have to help them find the birds. And I think that's something which we don't do enough that I think that's going to be one of the big challenges we have in the 21st century.

Roy Sharples: 40:53

True artists are always outsiders looking in; the rebels with a cause themselves. They provide something new to the world we live in overturning the status quo and positively impacting people's lives and moving society forward. And many people who evolved into creative pioneers did so off their own box, not because their education system and enable them along that journey. It discouraged and ignored that difference and potential. For example, Edgar Allan Poe, Marlon Brando, Salvador Dali, I believe was expelled from school because of their indifference, and they challenge the system. Creativity is the core of humanity. breaking the rules is just what creativity involves, and the rebellious nature of the mind as a catalyst to create. Now that does not mean breaking the law. It means questioning the status quo, and treating what you do as a blank canvas to self Express and provide an alternative. People like Mohammed Ali Bjarke, Coco Chanel, George Lucas, Leonardo da Vinci, Frank Lloyd Wright, and Walt Disney, were classic outliers, who had no attachment to fix definitions of any form of life or reality, which is why they became genuinely remarkable in their chosen fields. They were self defined, self educated, magical artists, they surprised and excited us. And we are attracted to that originality and magnetic genius, encouraging us to expect the unexpected, and ultimately, to be entertained by them. And to learn more about ourselves and the world we live in.

Peter Hinssen: 42:37

Yeah, and the irony, of course, right is that then you have to say that the education system did something good, because it was exactly utterly frustrating. Six, it actually drove people to do innovation. So in a way, it served its purpose.

Roy Sharples: 42:52

By the way, I'm not trying to mandate that every single person needs to be a creative pioneer in the context of an organization. It's about creating balance, and productive teams for the dynamics work by having diverse talent and skills to achieve the desired outcomes. Effectively, you need balls. I mean, I love on Sunday, but column wrote in his book loon shots is that every company is every organization is filled with artists and soldiers. And you need both. I mean, a company with only soldiers is probably not going to be able to live for very long, because they don't see things that are happening all around them, they just carry out what they know, a company filled with artists is a nightmare. I mean, it was it'd be a nun house, you know, trying to work there with everybody going in all sorts of directions. It's about finding the right balance between how many soldiers do you need and how many artists and the most important thing is they need to understand that they need each other. The artists should really, really be grateful that the soldiers are there to create the environment and the cash flow, to allow them to look at things that other people won't look at. But at the same time, the soldiers have to understand that there should be really grateful that there are artists out there, we're helping them think about what could be next, finding that right balance and making sure that they respect each other, I think is one of the most crucial things that you have to get right in any organization. Tilting forward, what's your vision for the future of business?

Peter Hinssen: 44:27

Well, I'm I'm an I'm a relentless utopian. So I really believe in the power of how technology and innovation can actually build a better world, how it can build a better society, and how I believe that companies can actually help contribute to that. It's not always easy to stay utopian there. And just to give you an example, I mean, the last couple of years, we've seen the rise of the tech platform have become so dominant, you know, we've seen things related to privacy and data that are pretty scary. Sometimes you see the, you know, the concentration of power like we've never seen before. For me, I don't, I don't really, I'm not scared by what is happening in the world of, say, the tech platforms. It does show for me that we're living in a world where we need maybe a different way to help steer that. And let me explain what I mean. I mean, I take the big, big, big boom that we had, before the technology, boom, it was the world of oil. And if you remember, you know, companies like the Standard Oil Company in the US, where Rockefeller became the richest man in the world, at a certain moment, they had too much power. And it was such a concentration of, you know, just one company, that eventually the standard old company was dismantled by the US government. And they basically broke it up into smaller pieces to help, you know, build a better world of business and economy. The problem that we now have is we have something very similar, but unfortunately, it's no longer limited to one geography. I mean, we live in the age of networks. And in a company like say, Google, or Facebook or Microsoft, it's, it's no longer just a US problem. It's a global problem. The problem is that we don't have any governance at a global level to deal with these new phenomena. So I think that in order to build a better world of business, I think we're going to need to build a better world that is basically society, a better world to think about how we're going to organize the worlds because we don't have local phenomenon anymore. We have global business phenomena. And I think that's something that I really hope that I'm going to be able to see in the 21st century, when you look at the United Nations that was constructed a long time ago, to basically figure out a way to take us to the next level, I would say, great effort, but we have to reinvent that. I mean, the United Nations is become, I think a relatively, you know, dysfunctional way of nation states talking to each other. But in many ways, a lot of the businesses out there have become more important than nation states. So I think we need to reinvent that, that idea of planetary governance to deal with these strategic choices going forward. And that's something that I think we're going to absolutely need if we also want to take the next step when it comes to the world of business. And I'm curious to see how that's gonna play out. I love for example, what people like Ian Bremmer and his vision of GE zero are thinking about that. I love to see how also some of the the top leaders of some of the big technology companies out there I would I would maybe consider opportunities to to help create something like that. But for me, I'm still terribly excited about the future of business. Because I think in terms of disruption, we've only scratched the first layer. It's not because I mean, I always put it in black and white, I would hate to think that we put our brightest minds in the 21st century together, to come up with amazing global platforms on which we can like cat videos, I don't think that could be the pinnacle of human society. I think when you look at what we're going to be able to do with disruption when it comes to food and agriculture and health care, my God, that is going to be truly game changing when it comes to our lives, our happiness, our capabilities in society, I think that is going to be ultimately more important than taking discussing are some of the 1960s back into virtual reality. And I think that is something that I get excited about. But I do believe that it's not just going to be a business thing, I think we're going to have to figure out a way to at the same time do the governance on a society level. I think we are desperately in need to reinvent our old nation state way of thinking about rules and regulation. And putting that much more into global perspective. I think that is going to be an absolutely crucial step to make business really thrive and take off in in the next phase in the 21st century.

Roy Sharples: 49:33

You triggered some of the pressing problems, such as natural ecosystems, sustainability management, and climate change, adaptation and mitigation practices. Indigenous civilizations have been marginalized for hundreds of years, yet their knowledge of their ecosystems plays a vital role in protecting the environment and combating Disaster Reduction scenarios and situations. And tapping into that inside by reapplying their knowledge and practices to support. The solutions of this is timely.

Peter Hinssen: 50:08

I fundamentally agree. And let's be honest, some of those cultures have been around a lot longer. Yeah. And have agents have inherent wisdom. And I think knowledge that we're not even leveraging, or, you know, we haven't even tapped into. But But I think there is, as I said, I get excited about the future, because I do believe that we have a potential as as human beings, to constantly be able to build a better future, unfortunately, we always have the same opportunity to basically destroy it, as well. And I think that's the, that's the the fine line that we're going to have to build. And I think it's something that when you look at it more, from a philosophical point of view, I think we can, we can clearly see that just take the last couple of hundreds of years, we have made tremendous progress in trying to build a world where more and more people can actually enjoy, you know, rich and and, and fruitful lives. If you compare that, you know, to just two 300 years ago, which is really a blip in human history, then I think we've made amazing advances. But at the same time, you know, we we are constantly on a position where if we make a couple of wrong moves, we can destroy it completely. And whether that is, you know, in, in a situation, which is about wars, or you know, the environment, there are so many ways that we can we can still actually just screw it up. But as I said, I'm an absolute perennial optimist. And I think it's, it's an exciting time to be here because I think, sometimes I think the only regret I have is that maybe I would have wanted to be born right now to still see a couple of days things come to fruition. I'm only going to have a limited view on what is out there. But I am going to, I'm going to savor every single moment of it.

Roy Sharples: 52:16

The future belongs to those who can see it coming. But how soon is the future? One thing's for sure, the future is unwritten, and everything is possible. Do you want to learn more about how to create Without Frontiers by unleashing your creative power? Then consider getting

CREATIVITY WITHOUT FRONTIERS: 52:44

How to make the visible visible by lighting the way into the future. It's available in print, digital and audio on all relevant book platforms. You have been listening to the Unknown Origins podcast. Please follow subscribe, rate and review us. For more information go to unknownorigins.com Thank you for listening.